Literary Quality

d_k_c wrote: I think one of the biggest problems is parts and chapters. And yes, I realize that that’s probably the most hypocritical thing I will ever say.

IMO and in my personal experience Writing part 1 then part 2 and posting it, is for instant gratification. You are not sure if you want to continue writing…It all depends on the feedback you receive. In other words, you may think your writing for yourself….But the fact of the matter is you are not. If you were writing for yourself, you would finish the Story before posting it.

All stories have a beginning middle and end…except the stories with parts. They end up going nowhere or become so convoluted they become un-enjoyable. Or they just stop. As I say this, there are authors that are wondering…Is he talking about me? No! I’m primarily talking about my own stories. And yes…Yours as well.
...

While I do see your point I can't totally agree with you either. Maybe that's because MMM began more as an experiment than anything else and while I did plan a few (tiny) things ahead in the first installment, it wasn't before the second part that I really considered turning it into a series. Even then it took a while until I saw where I wanted to go eventually meaning that feedback shaped the story. I remember scrapping quite a bit due to the feedback of beta readers and I'm still not regretting these changes. This being said I have no illusions of writing just for me here.

I do however think that a story should have a predetermined course and not get changed to please the majority of readers. My idea for the fall workshop 2012 didn't get posted because the story wasn't finished and I refused to publish it in multiple parts (not that this would've helped anyway). And I wouldn't be able to foreshadow certain things in MMM if I hadn't planned these things out already.

Lastleaf wrote: Simple, if you require that you lower your bar of expectations just to enjoy something whether its a story, a movie or something, what does that say about ourselves. Aren't we just fooling our self?

It's not like my expectations are just THAT high here. I know that this isn't professional fiction so I'm not going nuts about every tiny flaw I find. But as d_k_c mentioned earlier my expectations rise the longer the author in question has been active.

Lastleaf wrote: I disagree. I think the biggest problem is that the stories here virtually write themselves. We know how the opening will go; girls gets powers. Meteorite, experiment go awry or not, or whatever window dressing you apply and some don't even bother its all the same. Girl gets powers. We also know how its going to end; girl wins. That is why the middle is so important because that is virtually the only place you can make the story distinct from the others.

There may be certain patterns that show up very often, but it's always possible to add a twist to them as well. Unfortunately certain patterns are preferred over others. The general consensus seems to be that a ubergirl has to either beat up or kill a man or destroy/lift something really heavy for the story to be entertaining. Trying to break out of the usual patterns gets a lot harder thanks to that.

njae wrote:

Lastleaf wrote: I disagree. I think the biggest problem is that the stories here virtually write themselves. We know how the opening will go; girls gets powers. Meteorite, experiment go awry or not, or whatever window dressing you apply and some don't even bother its all the same. Girl gets powers. We also know how its going to end; girl wins. That is why the middle is so important because that is virtually the only place you can make the story distinct from the others.

There may be certain patterns that show up very often, but it's always possible to add a twist to them as well. Unfortunately certain patterns are preferred over others. The general consensus seems to be that a ubergirl has to either beat up or kill a man or destroy/lift something really heavy for the story to be entertaining. Trying to break out of the usual patterns gets a lot harder thanks to that.

Just to be clear, I didn't mean that as an affront, that stories here lack variety. It is a simple rough outline. When I make a story, not only will I illustrate how she gets powers but as much as possible show why (ie Ghost Rider, Green Lantern), this could be done on the opening act or much later. Or add motivation for using those powers (ie Spider-man) or that having powers has a cost/consequence (ie Hulk, X-Men) and a lot of others. So not only is opening act has a "twist" but affects the whole narrative. It isn't just a "twist" anymore but an integral plot or trait of the story.

Anon wrote: This point begs another question Lastleaf: do you keep your bar expectation equally high in front of each and every piece of literature/cinema/entertainment?

Curious about my expectations? Why do you ask? To answer, hell no. I eagerly waiting for the next installment of drmuttonchops superwoman as much as njae's next work and I won't take it against him if it doesn't compare with his last. God knows how many times I've reread Lori takes on terrorist back at xtreme strength. I loved Nolan's Batman and also enjoyed Avengers immensely. I had too low of an expectation for Iron Man 3 (though it would be just a fun romp) that I didn't properly enjoy it. But I found it useful to have standards, compromising too much results in failure to recognize quality.

Anon wrote:

Lastleaf wrote: I disagree. I think the biggest problem is that the stories here virtually write themselves. We know how the opening will go; girls gets powers. Meteorite, experiment go awry or not, or whatever window dressing you apply and some don't even bother its all the same. Girl gets powers. We also know how its going to end; girl wins. That is why the middle is so important because that is virtually the only place you can make the story distinct from the others.

This comment sound a bit sterile for me. While I agree that the general plot of each story is pretty much set, I think that the "hows" are very important to set the tone of the story. Maybe it's just me, I'm not the kind of person that have problems with spoilers, since I think that seeing how something it's done is as much important as what is done.

Sorry it's a rough outline. Just as you can rearrange a sentence you can change the order of plot points in the story.

Lastleaf wrote:

njae wrote:

Lastleaf wrote: I disagree. I think the biggest problem is that the stories here virtually write themselves. We know how the opening will go; girls gets powers. Meteorite, experiment go awry or not, or whatever window dressing you apply and some don't even bother its all the same. Girl gets powers. We also know how its going to end; girl wins. That is why the middle is so important because that is virtually the only place you can make the story distinct from the others.

There may be certain patterns that show up very often, but it's always possible to add a twist to them as well. Unfortunately certain patterns are preferred over others. The general consensus seems to be that a ubergirl has to either beat up or kill a man or destroy/lift something really heavy for the story to be entertaining. Trying to break out of the usual patterns gets a lot harder thanks to that.

Just to be clear, I didn't mean that as an affront, that stories here lack variety. It is a simple rough outline. When I make a story, not only will I illustrate how she gets powers but as much as possible show why (ie Ghost Rider, Green Lantern), this could be done on the opening act or much later. Or add motivation for using those powers (ie Spider-man) or that having powers has a cost/consequence (ie Hulk, X-Men) and a lot of others. So not only is opening act has a "twist" but affects the whole narrative. It isn't just a "twist" anymore but an integral plot or trait of the story.

I think using the term "twist" was a mistake on my part. And when I say that certain patterns are preferred I don't mean by the authors but by the readers. I have the impression that most readers are in it just for the fanservice and don't care about the things you mentioned. And so far this thread gave me no reason to think otherwise since most if not all posters were authors.

njae wrote: I think using the term "twist" was a mistake on my part. And when I say that certain patterns are preferred I don't mean by the authors but by the readers. I have the impression that most readers are in it just for the fanservice and don't care about the things you mentioned. And so far this thread gave me no reason to think otherwise since most if not all posters were authors.

You can make a poll if you like, though nobody would want to be seen shallow. Many are here for the fanservice, quick fix, and instant gratification. I admit I did. I was surprised by the call for feedback in a past thread and back then I promised I will, even then you were warned you're walking on eggshells. I have a worse impression than you have though I would not say.

Curious about my expectations? Why do you ask? To answer, hell no. I eagerly waiting for the next installment of drmuttonchops superwoman as much as njae's next work and I won't take it against him if it doesn't compare with his last. .

Thanks, LL. I'm glad you feel that way.

drmuttonchops3 wrote:

Curious about my expectations? Why do you ask? To answer, hell no. I eagerly waiting for the next installment of drmuttonchops superwoman as much as njae's next work and I won't take it against him if it doesn't compare with his last. .

Thanks, LL. I'm glad you feel that way.

Well, I'm still angry at you for not having a story to go about with the illustration of Clara saving Louie from that dinosaur

LOL! Just watch the Arctic Giant cartoon and imagine the genders swapped. That's what it's based on. Anyway, let's stay on topic.

Lastleaf wrote:

njae wrote: I think using the term "twist" was a mistake on my part. And when I say that certain patterns are preferred I don't mean by the authors but by the readers. I have the impression that most readers are in it just for the fanservice and don't care about the things you mentioned. And so far this thread gave me no reason to think otherwise since most if not all posters were authors.

You can make a poll if you like, though nobody would want to be seen shallow. Many are here for the fanservice, quick fix, and instant gratification. I admit I did. I was surprised by the call for feedback in a past thread and back then I promised I will, even then you were warned you're walking on eggshells. I have a worse impression than you have though I would not say.

I really have trpouble understanding the second part of you post. I did consider the poll and decided against it because I fear I wouldn't like an honest result there.

I think pretty much everybody wants quality, well written stories. What people want out of those stories, on the other hand, varies greatly.

I don't think it requires lowering standards to accept that when you go to a site called Superwomenmania, your number one priority is stories about Superwomen in action. That is the need (well, want anyway) that is satisfied most uniquely by this site. Carefully plotted stories with interesting and well developed characters are nice - all of my favorite stories in the genre fall into that category - but I can get what I came here for without that. So, yeah, literary quality, while nice, is optional.

That by no means should suggest that it not very much appreciated. The quick fanservice stories are fun, and then they're forgotten. The ones where the supergirl is no more than just a walking and/or flying sex and/or destruction machine and the other characters are nothing but containers of semen and/or blood for her to messily extract are a dime a dozen. I don't save any of those. It's the stories that have actual stories featuring actual characters that find their way to my hard drive so I can read them if or when this site goes under. These are the stories I'll miss if they go away, and won't be able to count on finding replacements for in that unhappy case.

Jabbrwock wrote: I think pretty much everybody wants quality, well written stories. What people want out of those stories, on the other hand, varies greatly.

I don't think it requires lowering standards to accept that when you go to a site called Superwomenmania, your number one priority is stories about Superwomen in action. That is the need (well, want anyway) that is satisfied most uniquely by this site. Carefully plotted stories with interesting and well developed characters are nice - all of my favorite stories in the genre fall into that category - but I can get what I came here for without that. So, yeah, literary quality, while nice, is optional.

That by no means should suggest that it not very much appreciated. The quick fanservice stories are fun, and then they're forgotten. The ones where the supergirl is no more than just a walking and/or flying sex and/or destruction machine and the other characters are nothing but containers of semen and/or blood for her to messily extract are a dime a dozen. I don't save any of those. It's the stories that have actual stories featuring actual characters that find their way to my hard drive so I can read them if or when this site goes under. These are the stories I'll miss if they go away, and won't be able to count on finding replacements for in that unhappy case.

Agreed

I couldn't agree more with Jabbrwock.

When I write, I want to not only create a story about a superwoman in action, but I also aim for great characterization (no matter if they are a major/minor character) and great imagery. Basically, I want you to feel that you are in the story - a part of the story itself - whether you can imagine yourself as one of the characters in my story or as someone who just happens to be a witness to it all. Kinda like you are watching the scene unfold around you. So I do put in a lot of work, detail, thoughts, and action when I write a story. Not only do I make sure that the superwoman aspects are there, but I want you to know the inner thoughts of the character telling the story as well as the details they see as well as what happened since it is their story after all. Part of my approach of my style that I go for can be best described as "literary journalism".

To sum it up, I want to make it a memorable experience and I think that should be the goal of an author sharing their story.

Same goes for when I read something. If it is memorable for me, then I like it. Even if it means that I absolutely hate that character on their moral compass or personality, if it is memorable then you will earn a five star and a favorite from me.

njae wrote: I really have trpouble understanding the second part of you post. I did consider the poll and decided against it because I fear I wouldn't like an honest result there.

It was supposed to be a response to this

njae wrote: I have the impression that most readers are in it just for the fanservice and don't care about the things you mentioned. And so far this thread gave me no reason to think otherwise since most if not all posters were authors.

Changed my mind posting my reply.

And why would you be afraid of a honest result.