- Posts: 187
- Thank you received: 94
No killing?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Thefirstone
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Junior Member
You've just described a Velorian Protector, for what its worth.So how far do you prefer to take/what do you think of the trope of superheroes not killing their enemies, however much they may arguably deserve it, as used in stories? Personally I’d say that there’s a difference between crimes in progress and the huge armies in each Avengers movie, which could be considered an act of war. I’ve also wondered if the outcry over police brutality over the last few years would impact how superheroes would carry themselves. One general story idea I’ve had for a while is an alien supergirl stationed on Earth as a combination of border patrol and a park ranger. That is, her mission statement is to deal with alien criminals and monsters who are on Earth illegally/pose a threat to Earth and those who live here, and has a license to kill when it comes to them, but not to human villains.
Shadar
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- shadar
- Offline
- Uberposter par Excellence
- Posts: 3936
- Thank you received: 3635
Personally, I don’t write about my characters killing. It doesn’t interest me that much, and I haven’t really considered.So how far do you prefer to take/what do you think of the trope of superheroes not killing their enemies, however much they may arguably deserve it, as used in stories?
BUT You might be able to use the act of killing someone as a plot device. Think about it. The “No killing” rule for many comic book characters shows that they have ideals, rules, and standards that they hold themselves against. When Superman killed the Joker in Injustice it just showed how he had crossed the line/was in the middle of doing it.
You can definitely use it in a story: Our Heroine is in a position where she needs to kill/accidentally does so. They could also be framed for it and the mistrust in them can then be a struggle in of itself.
Lots of opportunities!
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Rjjt456
- Offline
- Junior Member
- Posts: 215
- Thank you received: 122
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- anonxyzus
- Offline
- Junior Member
- Posts: 101
- Thank you received: 72
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- jimbob
- Offline
- Junior Member
- Posts: 163
- Thank you received: 40
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- slim36
- Offline
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1339
- Thank you received: 2249
Is she a normal human endowed with tremendous power somehow? That gives her more leeway than a visiting alien. But even a visiting alien can have quite a lot of leeway in how she deals with invaders from another world, which she (or even the empowered human) would not enjoy when dealing with a local criminal, even an empowered local criminal. And if the setting has hundreds or thousands of high powered supers, no one of them will have the kind of moral impact from her decisions, no matter how potentially lethal, as a single superwoman having to bear the moral burden of being the world's only super.
I'm sure there are tons of other factors that could influence the morality of the choice.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Jabbrwock
- Offline
- Junior Member
- Posts: 164
- Thank you received: 85
A single protector figure for an entire planet would need something to keep attackers at bay. if single attackers are driven away one at a time, they could combine forces A way to banish offenders and prevent them from returning? Draining powers of attackers without killing them and make the protector stronger each time?
That's an interesting concept... the "bad aliens" would learn that every time they battle the protector, she'll drain their powers and get stronger. So if they don't kill her on their first encounter, then it just gets harder until the planet she's protecting is impossible to attack.
So maybe the strategy is to secretly send a couple of experienced Protectors to a newly protected planet along with a newly-minted teenaged Protector, to back her up while she takes on any rogue aliens or attackers/infiltrators or whatever. Once she's won a few battles and gotten strong enough, then they can leave her on her own.
Of course, such a young Protector needs a local Terran to teach her the ways of the world and its customs and languages and so forth so she can fit in, perhaps underground, perhaps in public. There are endless story opportunities to tell the tale of this "mentor/guide" and the young Protector who he is teaching their ways.
I'm sure we'd all sign up for that job. Pays not so great, but the perks are terrific.
Shadar
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- shadar
- Offline
- Uberposter par Excellence
- Posts: 3936
- Thank you received: 3635
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- slim36
- Offline
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1339
- Thank you received: 2249
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- MisterK
- Offline
- Junior Member
- Posts: 173
- Thank you received: 73
Yes. My current story has the superwoman being ruthless to the enemy, but then, Empire Zukenov did invade in order to conquer, enslave, expand their empire. "Pretty please go away, will you?" isn't enough.
slim36: "Another twist might be to make the protectors with a term limit, like 30 or 50 years."
I put this in a part of my story that hasn't been published yet. In the Aurora Universe, wormholes between solar systems make possible spaceship travel between the stars. In my version, in the new Wormhole Guardian program, the teams serve for ten years. If they like the job as first line of defense at the edge of the solar system, they can stay on. Nobody thinks less of them if one term is enough. This is different than planetary Protectors who make a life on their protected planet, for the rest of their lives.
"It might be a challenge to outlive generations of humans and continue to stay engaged enough to keep forming new relationships."
Brantley Thomas Elkins has exciting and emotionally moving stories about this, like his "Empress of the Dawn" trilogy. They are a big part of why I wanted to try writing Aurora Universe stories myself. There's a little bit of this theme at the end of Zukenov (part 6, not yet published), and I want to write more in future stories about that personal toll of outliving those one protects, serves, and loves. It's a great chance to add some real drama and romance and psychology themes to make the stories richer than just "watch her beat up the bad guys!"
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- AUphoric
- Offline
- Junior Member
- Posts: 154
- Thank you received: 67
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Thefirstone
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Junior Member
- Posts: 187
- Thank you received: 94
By contrast, helping humanity out without killing people, and trying to maintain a good reputation among the Earthlings would be pretty darned challenging. Possibly a challenge worthy of tackling over the course of a lifetime, even for a long-lived superwoman.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Jabbrwock
- Offline
- Junior Member
- Posts: 164
- Thank you received: 85
I immediately thought of Sarah Douglas's Ursa whilst reading the above. If she wasn't booting an astronaut clean off the moon, blowing U.S. army helicopters out of the sky with a mere kiss, to the demise of all on board, or picking up and throwing large buses full of passengers at innocent pedestrians, she was easily demolishing a 'competitor' over a table at an arm wrestle. She made it look so damn easy and effortless (as you would expect), she took it all in her stride, and was great to watch!Another reason is simple challenge. For a superwoman, stopping any human by just killing them would be trivially easy. No challenge, and really no stakes. Nobody on Earth could possibly call her to account for her actions. It would be like playing a video game with cheats enabled - maybe entertaining for a few minutes, but not more than that.
This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Monty
- Offline
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1636
- Thank you received: 2165
The argument is pretty broad, but the core of it is that what makes a scenario interesting is how a character navigates around a problem, rather than simply bulldozering their way through. One really excellent example is the ending of the original Robocop, when Murphy had to find a way to put Dick Jones in a corner without violating any of the Prime Directives.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Woodclaw
- Offline
- Administrator
- Posts: 3604
- Thank you received: 1991
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Monty
- Offline
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1636
- Thank you received: 2165
The entire justification for killing is preventing the death and suffering of innocents.
And while you could only write stories where the bad guys can be healed and rehabilitated and turned back into good people, that's not the way many humans work, so is unlikely to be the way for alien baddies either.
My take is simple -- if the bad guys are going to kill or maim or otherwise seriously hurt people in the future, then any superheroine who cares about people must put a stop to them. Permanently. Immediately.
No different than how you handle a rabid dog or wolf or whatever dangerous animal that threatens people with death and can't be cured.
But that said, there is a strong argument for a humane death in that scenario. An overwhelming use of force that results in instant oblivion.
The whole DC Comics mythos of never killing was idiocy, and forced a of of really stupid writing to work around the obvious necessity. It also resulted in a huge fan controversy when Wonder Woman killed Maxwell Lord because she absolutely had to. And people are still bouncing off the walls from Superman killing Zod in the movie. Both WW and Supes should have done it a lot sooner to save uncounted lives.
Spock had it right, although he wasn't talking about this scenario: Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Shadar
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- shadar
- Offline
- Uberposter par Excellence
- Posts: 3936
- Thank you received: 3635
We humans are generally the same, but now lets up the ante by having a truly superior being among us...A Superwoman, lets say. Unless she's Alien, and has evolved past certain tendencies, fine. But if she's human, god help us all.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- d_k_c
- Offline
- Senior Member
- Posts: 422
- Thank you received: 307
People - mentally well adjusted people - don't kill on a whim, because there is an emotional cost and they just know it is wrong. Cultural norms can alter this a little but it is basically universal.
Even killing animals can be tough and i suspect a super-nanny state is more likely than anything else to result from the emergence of a group of supergirls.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- BrokenIron
- Offline
- New Member
- Posts: 35
- Thank you received: 69
So, I wouldn't say there should be no killing, ever, under any circumstances. But killing someone should only be done as a last resort, and superheroes have a lot of powers and abilities they can use before getting to the last resort.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Pepper
- Offline
- Junior Member
- Posts: 123
- Thank you received: 62
It would be hard to know where to call the shots with a scenario such as that. Would either be open to prosecution? Would they plead self-defence, even if their invulnerability was returned?
Could either just ignore any court judgement with a shrug of the shoulders, and a dismissive "do you really think you can just lock me up in a prison cell?"
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Monty
- Offline
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1636
- Thank you received: 2165
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- slim36
- Offline
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1339
- Thank you received: 2249
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Thefirstone
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Junior Member
- Posts: 187
- Thank you received: 94
It happened on her debut in public as Supergirl, so maybe she was just 'experimenting.' Perhaps she didn't know her own SuperStrength? - of course she would have! (The second bank robber dude certainly did - perhaps it serves him right for shooting her at point blank range with his semi-automatic rifle. The first bank robber will be fortunate if he walks away with two broken arms.)
Melissa doesn't pull any punches here and she certainly looks as if she is enjoying herself!
This message has an attachment image.
Please log in or register to see it.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Monty
- Offline
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1636
- Thank you received: 2165
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- jimbob
- Offline
- Junior Member
- Posts: 163
- Thank you received: 40