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Geekseven's year in stories

08 Jan 2013 05:35 #30004 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Geekseven's year in stories

njae wrote: Since people seem to like to be able to see the stats of their own stories, I tweaked the layout for the "My stories" menu to be the same as the classic layouts. This way you can watch how your stories are doing without having to go through the not-so-abtly-named "Sort by popularity".


I like it! Thanks!

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06 Jan 2018 12:18 #58034 by Franky
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I searched for these stories, but sadly I can't find them any more. What happened to the "'Stupendous Girl" storyline on SWM?

Thanks!

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06 Jan 2018 12:50 #58036 by fats
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All G7's stories have been deleted as per his request.

Fats

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06 Jan 2018 12:59 #58037 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Geekseven's year in stories

Franky wrote: I searched for these stories, but sadly I can't find them any more. What happened to the "'Stupendous Girl" storyline on SWM?

Thanks!


As Fats said G7 retired from this community earlier this year and, as per his request, all stories were removed from the site. Unfortunately this means that they're only avaible through wayback machine or if any user actually saved them :(

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06 Jan 2018 13:23 - 06 Jan 2018 13:24 #58038 by Franky
Replied by Franky on topic Geekseven's year in stories
I already searched them via the Wayback Machine, but I was not successful so far. Has anyone found them and can provide a link (also as PM if preferred).

Thanks so much.
Last edit: 06 Jan 2018 13:24 by Franky.

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06 Jan 2018 14:02 #58039 by The Highlander
Replied by The Highlander on topic Geekseven's year in stories
I have a copy of most of his stories, if you PM me your e-mail address I can try sending them to you.

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06 Jan 2018 17:29 #58042 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Geekseven's year in stories
It seems to me that if a guy doesn't want his stories distributed any longer, that everyone should respect that.

Even if it's technically possible to tell Geekzeven to buzz off by digging back into the Wayback machine to find his stuff and share them.

Obviously, individuals can do whatever they want and Geekseven can't do much about it, but it seems disrespectful to me. If you appreciated his hard work (and most of know how hard it is to craft good stories), then you should appreciate his wishes after he retires.

Shadar

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06 Jan 2018 17:41 - 06 Jan 2018 17:43 #58043 by Monty
Replied by Monty on topic Geekseven's year in stories

shadar wrote: It seems to me that if a guy doesn't want his stories distributed any longer, that everyone should respect that.

Even if it's technically possible to tell Geekzeven to buzz off by digging back into the Wayback machine to find his stuff and share them.

Obviously, individuals can do whatever they want and Geekseven can't do much about it, but it seems disrespectful to me. If you appreciated his hard work (and most of know how hard it is to craft good stories), then you should appreciate his wishes after he retires.

Shadar


Fair enough Shadar, I did think about what you say above before I posted the link. My post now deleted.
Last edit: 06 Jan 2018 17:43 by Monty.
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06 Jan 2018 22:11 - 06 Jan 2018 22:17 #58044 by Monty
Replied by Monty on topic Geekseven's year in stories
It was interesting to see SuperWomenMania in her various formats on a Wayback search since around 2005. Worth a look for nostalgia!
Last edit: 06 Jan 2018 22:17 by Monty.

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07 Jan 2018 01:32 #58045 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Geekseven's year in stories
There are several old stories that I have read many times. Most of those are by Marknew, LFAN and DKC. I have often pondered what if one day I opened up my browser and this site and DTV had disappeared into cyberspace? I think I would be mad at myself for not downloading them when I had the chance. On the other hand, they are not mine and a part of me feels that it would be very wrong to do so. I am curious what others think about this.

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07 Jan 2018 02:39 #58046 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Geekseven's year in stories

ace191 wrote: There are several old stories that I have read many times. Most of those are by Marknew, LFAN and DKC. I have often pondered what if one day I opened up my browser and this site and DTV had disappeared into cyberspace? I think I would be mad at myself for not downloading them when I had the chance. On the other hand, they are not mine and a part of me feels that it would be very wrong to do so. I am curious what others think about this.



I think it’s perfectly Ok to download stories for your personal library. And if the author is still active and or wants their stories distributed, to share them.

But when an author removes their stories from the Net and no longer wants them shared, then I think we respect that by keeping them in our private library for our personal enjoyment.

Anyway, my two cents...

Shadar

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07 Jan 2018 07:30 #58047 by d_k_c
Replied by d_k_c on topic Geekseven's year in stories
I feel like a broken record. Writing is selfless, and selfish. Do it for you, and if a handful of people love it....then feel good about it. Geek7 received comparably just as much praise as some of the best. He even was declared a Legend of SWM. It still wasn't enough for him. And like an individual well below his maturity level......He left dramatically.

As far as his work is concerned. I look at it like this.....Whether its 50 characters, or a million. If you post it online...its' there to share. It's like someone posting something on twitter, then deleting it, and chastising people for continuing to share it...

Cmon....were old enough now to know how the internet works
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07 Jan 2018 10:39 #58051 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Geekseven's year in stories
I believe there's a line somewhere: while we can't prevent people from sharing an author's work for their own private use, just like you can't prevent them from lending a book, if an author wishes for some or all of his work to disappear ... well we have to comply. For a long time I actually thought it was the other way around, but learned the hard way that it's a surefire way to piss off some people.

On the subject of Wayback machine ... it's kind of dubious status. It's clearly beyond the reach of the admin team here.
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07 Jan 2018 11:44 #58053 by conceptfan
Replied by conceptfan on topic Geekseven's year in stories
This is a really interesting debate. Shadar makes good points but I don't feel it is clear cut.

It was G7 and no-one else who decided to publish his stories originally. As with the above-mentioned hypothetical ill-advised social media post, the past can't be altered because it no longer sits comfortably with the present. Fats is a good webmaster for responding to the request to remove the works from SWM, but I don't think people are doing anything wrong by sharing stories they downloaded or linking to wayback.

Fans of the works of Franz Kafka will know that he told his publisher to destroy all his manuscripts Many of us have been culturally enriched by the publisher's betrayal.

Besides, isn't all this why most "genre" writers don't sign off stories with real names?

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07 Jan 2018 17:15 - 07 Jan 2018 17:17 #58057 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Geekseven's year in stories
I agree that it's not clear-cut.

It's not a legal issue.

It's not a moral issue.

It's not an ethical issue.

It falls into the category of the weakest of all forces in modern Western culture: respect. Do we respect someone else's wishes, even when we are not compelled to do so by ethics, morality or law?

Respect used to be a big deal. It still is in some aspects of Asian culture. But the word has been diminished almost to zero in the West.

But I'm not willing to let go of respect because I think it's an essential piece of glue in society. But I also realize that I'm fighting a losing battle. Lack of respect for other's wishes or beliefs or desires is the norm now. Still, when I see a chance to pay someone their respects, I still try.

Maybe it's just me. Like Tolkien's Elves, I'll fade away into the West.

Shadar
Last edit: 07 Jan 2018 17:17 by shadar.
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07 Jan 2018 17:44 #58058 by fats
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I want to explain something, when G7 came to me and asked that I remove all the stories written by him, I said no, he wanted to erase his online presence or reasons that I will not go into, I told him that I could rename the author so that the stories could still be enjoyed by members abut not attributed to him, he told me that was not acceptable to him and that the only option was deletion.

I told him that was something that makes me sad, but I complied with his request, I deleted the stories from the active server, one of the problems with his request is that there are a number of images in the galleries that I'm planning on restoring that he helped on and trying to find what image was his has taken all my free development time on the new site. I'll never understand his reasons behind his decision but I'm a man of honour and I fulfilled his request, it still saddens me that we have lost a ton of fantastic content but not for me to dictate to authors what they can and can't do with their stories I'm just a humble webmaster.

Fats

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07 Jan 2018 17:51 #58059 by AuGoose
Replied by AuGoose on topic Geekseven's year in stories
Whereas I feel that the words 'public' and 'publish' share a root for a reason. When you PUBLISH you are putting stuff out into the world in a way that is no longer solely yours to control. The casual replication of digital content creates some new dilemmas, but up until the last 20 years or so there wasn't an author anywhere who thought they could 'unring the bell'. Publishing is a commitment, and one that doesn't especially care about an author's later hand-wringing. If there's 'respect' involved, then it should be respect what you're doing when you push the button. It is a definitive act. Own it.

I think it's appropriate and polite it's no longer in the library here per the author's wishes, but lets not pretend water isn't wet. Every aspect of your public and especially online behavior is recorded indelibly these days.

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07 Jan 2018 18:27 - 07 Jan 2018 18:31 #58060 by Monty
Replied by Monty on topic Geekseven's year in stories

AuGoose wrote: Whereas I feel that the words 'public' and 'publish' share a root for a reason. When you PUBLISH you are putting stuff out into the world in a way that is no longer solely yours to control. The casual replication of digital content creates some new dilemmas, but up until the last 20 years or so there wasn't an author anywhere who thought they could 'unring the bell'. Publishing is a commitment, and one that doesn't especially care about an author's later hand-wringing. If there's 'respect' involved, then it should be respect what you're doing when you push the button. It is a definitive act. Own it.

I think it's appropriate and polite it's no longer in the library here per the author's wishes, but lets not pretend water isn't wet. Every aspect of your public and especially online behavior is recorded indelibly these days.


I totally get that. Pushing the button to send is as big a buzz as writing. I agree with what you say after the boldened part as well.
Looking at the start of the thread, it reads like G7 was unhappy about the lack of feedback on some of his work that he rated as some of his best, taking him a year to write. Could be one of the reasons he wanted his work pulled.
Last edit: 07 Jan 2018 18:31 by Monty.

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07 Jan 2018 18:57 #58061 by conceptfan
Replied by conceptfan on topic Geekseven's year in stories
I completely respect Shadar's take on this. I also admire his insistence in sticking to his values.

My personal view is that holding someone to the 'norms' of the internet is not being disrespectful.

There is an element of "publish and be damned". There is an element of dubious morality in giving a gift and then demanding it be given back. It could be argued that G7 was not showing enormous respect for this community/forum or Fats by demanding a 1984-style history-cleansing.

Or how about this... if soneone, say an authority figure, asks for sonething, say a book, not to be published, to be destroyed and hidden forever, should that request be honoured out of respect for the authority figure or his office? Who draws the lines where respect overrules freedom of thought and expression?

Out of respect to G7 I won't pry into, speculate or comment on his reasons. Out of respect to G7 and Fats I won't ask for details of their private correspondence.

Let's respectfully agree to disagree on this.

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07 Jan 2018 19:26 #58062 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Geekseven's year in stories

conceptfan wrote:
Or how about this... if soneone, say an authority figure, asks for sonething, say a book, not to be published, to be destroyed and hidden forever, should that request be honoured out of respect for the authority figure or his office? Who draws the lines where respect overrules freedom of thought and expression?


It's a very different situation when it's not your book or your work that you're objecting to and want to prevent from being published. And we generally hold public figures to different standards than private citizens.

All of which makes this all the muddier.

In any case, I think this has been an interesting discussion, given that most of us are authors of one kind or another. Most of us who publish, even informally on SWM, do feel that we "own" our work and should have something to say about it.

In the world of formal publishing with ISBN numbers and copyrights, this is legally formalized. But for us, it's just whatever conventions our little community chooses to adopt. I wouldn't want to trade that freedom for a strict set of rules. We don't have to agree on everything to remain warmly welcomed members of the community.

Shadar

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07 Jan 2018 20:59 #58065 by conceptfan
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shadar wrote:

conceptfan wrote:
Or how about this... if soneone, say an authority figure, asks for sonething, say a book, not to be published, to be destroyed and hidden forever, should that request be honoured out of respect for the authority figure or his office? Who draws the lines where respect overrules freedom of thought and expression?


It's a very different situation when it's not your book or your work that you're objecting to and want to prevent from being published. And we generally hold public figures to different standards than private citizens.

All of which makes this all the muddier.


You're right. It wasn't a good example and it was deliberately obfiscating. I was clumsily trying to make a point about how two people might differently define the boundaries of respect in a given situation without one or the other totally rejecting the idea or value of respect in general.

shadar wrote: In any case, I think this has been an interesting discussion, given that most of us are authors of one kind or another. Most of us who publish, even informally on SWM, do feel that we "own" our work and should have something to say about it.


Agreed. It's not nice to see your work reproduced without credit (thanks, whoever did that to me on xhamster. Just include the author's name next time...). I would be really angry if someone was trying to make money from something I'd written and published for free. But I am also of the opinion that recalling work from a place where I'd agreed for it to be published is beyond the rights of my ownership.

shadar wrote: In the world of formal publishing with ISBN numbers and copyrights, this is legally formalized.

That's a neccessary financial and intellectual protection for content creators and publishers, and helps keep lawyers off the streets. But good luck to any published, printed author who demands the return of every copy of her book from every bookshop, second-hand dealer, public library and private bookcase... (sorry, couldn't resist...)

shadar wrote: But for us, it's just whatever conventions our little community chooses to adopt. I wouldn't want to trade that freedom for a strict set of rules.

I'm with you 100% on that trade decision. Even though this particular thread shows that we haven't all signed up to the same convention regarding the sharing of G7s back catalogue, it also shows that

shadar wrote: We don't have to agree on everything to remain warmly welcomed members of the community.

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07 Jan 2018 22:58 #58066 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Geekseven's year in stories
I want to thank everyone for their comments. Like most issues in our world, they are neither black or white. Instead, they run the full gamment of the grey spectrum.
A while back a popular FMG site went down and stayed down for a long time. I assumed it was a technical problem and when people on this site asked about, I provided instructions on how to get to the old stories. When authors had their content removed, I remained silent even though I knew where some of it could be found. I tend to agree with Shadar about respect which should not be a suprise because I think we are very close in age which means we remember different times.

So I think from this discussion that I would not be considered a "bad actor" if I downloaded
Birthright, Oh No, Jedd and Joanna or Supanji. Now if I can only figure out how to do it!

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08 Jan 2018 07:59 #58072 by willow
Replied by willow on topic Geekseven's year in stories
The problem is that nothing every truly disappears from the Internet. I don't know the reason why, and I won't inquire to respect his privacy. However, there are several authors who have abandoned or would prefer not to have earlier works seen. Yet you can find them if you look hard enough.

Too bad though. I enjoyed his work.

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08 Jan 2018 17:39 #58076 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Geekseven's year in stories
Of note, I have never seen any of my work on the internet anywhere else but here. The one exception to that is the TGK artwork that Argo and I commissioned for TGOS. That pops up elsewhere occasionally.

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08 Jan 2018 21:08 #58078 by d_k_c
Replied by d_k_c on topic Geekseven's year in stories
If I had my way there's a list of stories I wrote a long time ago that I'm not at all happy with. If I had my way, they'd be gone. I also recognize that, that's not how the internet works. It's equivalent to being at a poker table, showing the table my cards, and then respectfully asking that they forget what they just saw. Lets just say...I'm not betting on it.

Feel free to download my current stories. I'd be flattered if you did. Thanks again.
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