The LaPorte Caves - Revised

Monty wrote:

In no way whatsoever would I mean any disrespect to Circes for his monumental efforts in writing his brilliant La Porte Caves. It is an absolutely stunning piece of work!
He may have experienced writer's block / writer's cramp in trying to re-write a great story that he has produced.
If he wants, he can pick it up again. I'm just grateful for having had the chance to read his original masterpiece.

The last two years haven't exactly been normal times.  I'd like to see the story continue, but who knows when.

Maybe we should write a few snippets about the nourished world while we wait

I am actually currently working on a short based on the Weald world, in fact. Home stretch! “Weald Case Files” using Nourished police woman as the subject.

I've had a couple of ideas banging around in my head for a while.

jnw550 wrote:

I am actually currently working on a short based on the Weald world, in fact. Home stretch! “Weald Case Files” using Nourished police woman as the subject.

The Nourished Police Female Force - NPFF - trying to deal with a Nourished Mafia springs to mind as they take on 'La MalNourished Familia'.

 

Thenumber2ring wrote:

Maybe we should write a few snippets about the nourished world while we wait
 

An interesting idea, but I think what made the original story work was seeing two people from Earth trying to adapt to the Weald; would Julia see the toll (physical and mental) that it was taking on Howard, would she step up to the responsibility of looking after him, or would she give in to being hedonistic and self-indulgent?  The residents of the Weald seemed to have settled in to a situation where the women have all the power and none of the responsibility.  I'm not sure what stories there are to tell in a setting where no one has reason to grow or change, and Julia and Howard's story is still for circes_cup to tell.

I have had a recent re-read, and have been impressed, especially when THIS showed up as an addition to ch.11.
Brilliant dominance from Julia, easily overpowering Howard and the car with the ready-made front lifting bar. He does not stand a chance against her!

 

This is one of my favorite stories here on SWM.

In this confrontation, Howard already knows he doesn't stand a chance against Julia. What he doesn't know, and what she is going to great pains to explain to him, is that his life partner, the woman he knew and loved, is now dead and gone. That the only value he has to her now is his ability to make her happy through servitude. She is in charge. What she wants matters, and what she wants is the only thing that should matter to him. Because what he wants, to return to the life he knew, doesn't matter.

In their previous life, they may have been equals, or at least Howard treated her like they were equals, but that wouldn't fly with her anymore.

In Chapter 14 Julia relents on this, she realizes the mistake she made, but even then, she offers him the opportunity to be branded as her property.

I hope circes_cup continues this story. I would like to see if Julia follows through on her promise to return home with Howard, or at least take him home.

Monty wrote:

I have had a recent re-read, and have been impressed, especially when THIS showed up as an addition to ch.11.
 

Impressive artwork, but Julia is being quite monstrous at that point in the story.  She's done everything she could to belittle and intimidate Howard, then holds him captive when he tries to run away.

anonxyzus wrote:

I hope circes_cup continues this story. I would like to see if Julia follows through on her promise to return home with Howard, or at least take him home.

I'd forgotten that the story stopped (I really don't want to say "ended") on that cliffhanger.  My guess at the time was that she would find some excuse to break her promise.

Pepper wrote:

anonxyzus wrote:

I hope circes_cup continues this story. I would like to see if Julia follows through on her promise to return home with Howard, or at least take him home.

I'd forgotten that the story stopped (I really don't want to say "ended") on that cliffhanger.  My guess at the time was that she would find some excuse to break her promise.
 

Well, if she keeps her promise and returns with him, then the story ends.  That would be a ... let down. Or it could go other ways. She could have a change of heart after talking to Ruth and Mindy. I would imagine Mindy would be quite upset, as she loses her chance to kill Howard.

Julia could return with Howard, and then be miserable as the effects of the nourishment wear off. Howard could then decide that  he doesn't want his girlfriend to be unhappy and suggest they break up and Julia return to The Weald. Or he could decide that her happiness is important enough to him that he will return to The Weald with her and agree to be claimed by her. Hopefully they will set some ground rules that Howard can live with. Or ... something else.

anonxyzus wrote:

Well, if she keeps her promise and returns with him, then the story ends.  That would be a ... let down. Or it could go other ways. She could have a change of heart after talking to Ruth and Mindy. I would imagine Mindy would be quite upset, as she loses her chance to kill Howard.

 

That wouldn't necessarily be the end.  She could bring Howard home and then try to have the best of both worlds, literally; keep going back and forth to the Weald for Nourishment, luxury, and orgies, and Earth, where she tries to maintain a relationship with Howard.  I always kind of got the impression that circes was a bit dismayed at the extreme negative reactions to Julia.  If she does what I'm suggesting, it could still be a story about Julia being pulled in two very different directions, but not holding Howard hostage as she does it.

As for Mindy, I'm not sure she wants to kill Howard.  I think she holds men in such contempt that she wouldn't lower herself to hating just one.  Howard is between Mindy and something she wants.  It's rather like when a housefly gets into my apartment.  I don't want it dead, I just want it gone.

Pepper wrote:

anonxyzus wrote:

Well, if she keeps her promise and returns with him, then the story ends.  That would be a ... let down. Or it could go other ways. She could have a change of heart after talking to Ruth and Mindy. I would imagine Mindy would be quite upset, as she loses her chance to kill Howard.


 

That wouldn't necessarily be the end.  She could bring Howard home and then try to have the best of both worlds, literally; keep going back and forth to the Weald for Nourishment, luxury, and orgies, and Earth, where she tries to maintain a relationship with Howard.  I always kind of got the impression that circes was a bit dismayed at the extreme negative reactions to Julia.  If she does what I'm suggesting, it could still be a story about Julia being pulled in two very different directions, but not holding Howard hostage as she does it.

As for Mindy, I'm not sure she wants to kill Howard.  I think she holds men in such contempt that she wouldn't lower herself to hating just one.  Howard is between Mindy and something she wants.  It's rather like when a housefly gets into my apartment.  I don't want it dead, I just want it gone.
 

Well, Mindy has told Howard that the next time she catches him alone she will kill him. I think, in the story, Howard believes her. And I'm not sure if it is in the revised version or the original, but Howard suggested that once they were home, Julia could go back for visits, and she told him there were health dangers involved with going on and off nourishment.

I know there was a lot of very negative reaction to Julia. I reacted very negatively myself. I think the strong reaction is an indication of how good a story teller circes is. When you read what Mindy and Ruth were constantly telling her about how weak and unintelligent men are, and combine that with her own experience as a nourished woman relating to the men of The Weild, it is hard not to blame her for getting seduced by the power of nourishment.

And the men in The Weild accept the superiority of women as natural. At the party Ruth explained to Julia that men who didn't like nourished women didn't reproduce, so over time the men evolved to desire the power of the women and the social dynamic. Julia wants Howard to be that way but doesn't seem to connect the dots; that he is not the product of the (unintentional?) selective breeding that produced men who are naturally subserviant to women and want to be that way.

Howard has made the point quite early on, of how Strongly Addictive the Nourishment is to the female population, so in the reality of The Weald, Julia cannot leave for good - and why would she want to, with all this new Power at her fingertips?!
I see Circes raising the issue of humanity's self-serving attitude being of the most critical importance to the individual's - Julia's - desires.

anonxyzus wrote:

Well, Mindy has told Howard that the next time she catches him alone she will kill him. I think, in the story, Howard believes her. And I'm not sure if it is in the revised version or the original, but Howard suggested that once they were home, Julia could go back for visits, and she told him there were health dangers involved with going on and off nourishment.

I don't think Julia would go on and off the nourishment. For one thing, it would be very difficult for her to get back through the caves in her unNourished state. I was thinking she'd come to Earth for a day or two at a time, travel at night so she wouldn't be seen, and bring enough Nourishment to stay for a day or two at a time. She could run through the caves in less than an hour; some people have longer commutes than that.

I know there was a lot of very negative reaction to Julia. I reacted very negatively myself. I think the strong reaction is an indication of how good a story teller circes is. When you read what Mindy and Ruth were constantly telling her about how weak and unintelligent men are, and combine that with her own experience as a nourished woman relating to the men of The Weild, it is hard not to blame her for getting seduced by the power of nourishment.

Oh, sure, it's completely understandable (and great storytelling) how Julia could be seduced by a place where where she has powers beyond her wildest dreams and her every whim is merited and indulged. It's understandable that she'd overlook and rationalize the appalling treatment of men; of all the powers granted by Nourishment, self-delusion might be the strongest. Still would like to see a reckoning for her.

And the men in The Weild accept the superiority of women as natural. At the party Ruth explained to Julia that men who didn't like nourished women didn't reproduce, so over time the men evolved to desire the power of the women and the social dynamic. Julia wants Howard to be that way but doesn't seem to connect the dots; that he is not the product of the (unintentional?) selective breeding that produced men who are naturally subserviant to women and want to be that way.

I saw that whole conversation as completely self-serving on Ruth's part. Did men really evolve to desire their abasement? I tend to think that they just realized it was a fight they were going to lose and they learned to shut up and suffer in silence.

E.T.A. Even the term of Howard being forced to stay in the alien 'Weald' is an alien version of 'Wield'.
Julia is forcing Howard to Wield to the Weald.

Yet more great writing craftsmanship from Circes_Cup!...

I saw that whole conversation as completely self-serving on Ruth's part. Did men really evolve to desire their abasement? I tend to think that they just realized it was a fight they were going to lose and they learned to shut up and suffer in silence.

I have had several German Shepherd Dogs throughout the years. I've read articles by experts describing how the breed has changed in response to what breeders have tried to achieve. If you want a characteristic, and you only breed dogs that have that characteristic, you are going to get more of it.

If the women of The Weald want men who are obedient and subservient, an can, as Ruth says, conceive when they want to, it's entirely possible that they could be breeding, intentionally or not, men with those characteristics simply by refusing to have sexual partners who lack those characteristics. Then you add in the nurture part of the equation, where men are raised to be subservient to their mothers and sisters and you have some very powerful behavioral shaping taking place.

anonxyzus wrote:

If the women of The Weald want men who are obedient and subservient, an can, as Ruth says, conceive when they want to, it's entirely possible that they could be breeding, intentionally or not, men with those characteristics simply by refusing to have sexual partners who lack those characteristics. Then you add in the nurture part of the equation, where men are raised to be subservient to their mothers and sisters and you have some very powerful behavioral shaping taking place.

Yes, that is a possibility, although it's still quite self-serving and monstrous in its own way.  Women in the Weald already brand men like cattle, no reason they shouldn't breed them like dogs, too.  "My partner, the father of my children, and what a thick, shiny coat he has!"

There's another possibility that I like.  When Julia is with that guy on the beach, he tells her how beautiful she is, that the Nourishment has been particularly kind to her.  It would be a potential twist to the story if women, even with all their accomplishments, strength, and super senses, could be manipulated by such simple flattery.  Rather than genetically selecting men who are docile and gratefully obedient, they may be breeding men who are the best liars and who are just telling the women what they want to hear.

Unfortunately, circes_cup hasn't weighed in here recently.  This thread gets revived every once in a while, and circes used to make a post or two when it did.  I haven't seen him this time.  I'm starting to think the story may be over.  Would be a pity.

Pepper wrote:

anonxyzus wrote:

If the women of The Weald want men who are obedient and subservient, an can, as Ruth says, conceive when they want to, it's entirely possible that they could be breeding, intentionally or not, men with those characteristics simply by refusing to have sexual partners who lack those characteristics. Then you add in the nurture part of the equation, where men are raised to be subservient to their mothers and sisters and you have some very powerful behavioral shaping taking place.

Yes, that is a possibility, although it's still quite self-serving and monstrous in its own way.  Women in the Weald already brand men like cattle, no reason they shouldn't breed them like dogs, too.  "My partner, the father of my children, and what a thick, shiny coat he has!"

There's another possibility that I like.  When Julia is with that guy on the beach, he tells her how beautiful she is, that the Nourishment has been particularly kind to her.  It would be a potential twist to the story if women, even with all their accomplishments, strength, and super senses, could be manipulated by such simple flattery.  Rather than genetically selecting men who are docile and gratefully obedient, they may be breeding men who are the best liars and who are just telling the women what they want to hear.

Unfortunately, circes_cup hasn't weighed in here recently.  This thread gets revived every once in a while, and circes used to make a post or two when it did.  I haven't seen him this time.  I'm starting to think the story may be over.  Would be a pity.

It would be a great pity to lose Circes Cup's great inventiveness and investment in his brilliant work.
I appreciate the effort he has put in over the chapters.
Then to attempt a re-write of what is already a great story.
I can only bow my head in acknowledgement of his efforts, rather like the males who bow their heads to the Nourished, Vastly Superior Females. Well played Sir!