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Season 4 - Supergirl transgender move?

23 Jun 2018 01:32 #59972 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Season 4 - Supergirl transgender move?

kikass2014 wrote:

...the expanse for example - sad it's going to Amazon...


I'm the opposite.  I'm happy its going to Amazon for two primary reasons -

1) Jeff Bezos is a fan of the show (which is why Amazon acquired it, on his call)

2) Amazon has money mountains to burn

And yes, I am a fan of the show too :D  Hopefully they will turn all the books into seasons :)

Peace.

/K


No argument, but I guess why I would categorize it as 'sad' is that it was sad that it couldn't get enough viewers to keep it on the air.

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24 Jun 2018 03:10 #59982 by brantley
Replied by brantley on topic Season 4 - Supergirl transgender move?
Nothing to do with superheroines or comics, but if you want to see how to handle diversity and make in part of great drama, go back to Hill Street Blues in the 1980s. One of the best TV series ever.

--Brantley

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24 Jun 2018 10:09 #59984 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Season 4 - Supergirl transgender move?

Nothing to do with superheroines or comics, but if you want to see how to handle diversity and make in part of great drama, go back to Hill Street Blues in the 1980s. One of the best TV series ever.

--Brantley


And one of the most iconic theme tunes ever :)

Memories :)

Peace.

/K

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24 Jun 2018 18:01 #59989 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 4 - Supergirl transgender move?

kikass2014 wrote:

Nothing to do with superheroines or comics, but if you want to see how to handle diversity and make in part of great drama, go back to Hill Street Blues in the 1980s. One of the best TV series ever.

--Brantley


And one of the most iconic theme tunes ever :)

Memories :)

Peace.

/K


Interesting that since the 1980's we've gone from substance and believable drama (in portraying diversity on TV) to tropes and slogans and pandering. An essential dumbing-down of TV to people who think in sound-bites and tweets and not nuanced discussions. 

It's always extremely dangerous to pick a decade and say "this is where it was the best", but exiting the 80's into the 90's is likely going to be my pick of the decade where Western culture peaked and has declined since. Of course, I expect everyone to have their own ideas on this point. <grin> 

Certainly, absolutely, the music peaked in the 70's and early 80's (OK, I'm ducking the fruit that's being thrown my way). My musical tastes didn't make it to the 90's, for the most part. 

And we had a WW TV show in the 70's and a Supergirl feature film in 1984.  Are the current movies and shows WW and SG better than that? Technically, yes. Absolutely. Otherwise...when it comes to characterization and storytelling... it's a pretty mixed bag.

Progress rarely comes with a capital 'P'. 

Shadar
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24 Jun 2018 19:04 #59990 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Season 4 - Supergirl transgender move?

shadar wrote: Interesting that since the 1980's we've gone from substance and believable drama (in portraying diversity on TV) to tropes and slogans and pandering. An essential dumbing-down of TV to people who think in sound-bites and tweets and not nuanced discussions. 

It's always extremely dangerous to pick a decade and say "this is where it was the best", but exiting the 80's into the 90's is likely going to be my pick of the decade where Western culture peaked and has declined since. Of course, I expect everyone to have their own ideas on this point. <grin> 

Certainly, absolutely, the music peaked in the 70's and early 80's (OK, I'm ducking the fruit that's being thrown my way). My musical tastes didn't make it to the 90's, for the most part. 

And we had a WW TV show in the 70's and a Supergirl feature film in 1984.  Are the current movies and shows WW and SG better than that? Technically, yes. Absolutely. Otherwise...when it comes to characterization and storytelling... it's a pretty mixed bag.

Progress rarely comes with a capital 'P'. 

Shadar


I wonder how much our perceptions of what was 'good' is governed by our own culture and thinking.  Not to say that I can't recognize the difference between a well written character and one that is not, but with the cultural differences I have to second guess myself.  It's the reason that rather than simply trust my own opinion (which carries bias) I like to look at the ratings which covers a (admittedly imperfect) range of views.  Same goes for music.  What I like was mostly what I liked as a teenager and while I have learned to appreciate and even like other forms of music (classical, country, etc.) they aren't what I find myself listening to and I suspect it's mostly the same for others.  My brother and I pooling our allowance to buy the beatles, the who and the doors as kids - good times.

I watched little of Hill Street Blues as I was working way too much at the time that was on.  Unless it was Sci Fi, I pretty much didn't make time for TV.  I'll add it to the list of potential binge worthy shows.

Speaking of having decent character development and (IMO) a decent show - I'll put season 2 of Luke Cage up there.  Here's a show that is nearly all non-white and carries a small amount of left leaning preaching but it's done in a far more subtle way with developed characters and nuance.  A persuasion rather than a hammer and one that doesn't present in stark black and white (no pun intended.)  I had trouble getting through season 1 - I didn't find the story overly compelling but season 2 has been decent.  I still have a few episodes left but if you have Netflix it's worth a look.  Misty even gets her robotic arm (though there aren't a lot of scenes yet with her using it.)  In fact - the simple fact that nearly all the characters (both good AND bad) are non-white you cannot rely on the traditional identity politic tropes to develop characters and present a story and they do a decent job.

I still have hopes for WW2.  Supergirl is where it is and it's unlikely we'll see a new and different version of that character for a while.  The great thing about comics, however, is that there are tons of characters to choose from - many who would be right at home here on this site.  Mister Miracle and Big Barda would be awesome, but likely impossible to find an actress that could look the part and fit the role.

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24 Jun 2018 19:42 #59991 by brantley
Replied by brantley on topic Season 4 - Supergirl transgender move?
Interesting that since the 1980's we've gone from substance and believable drama (in portraying diversity on TV) to tropes and slogans and pandering. An essential dumbing-down of TV to people who think in sound-bites and tweets and not nuanced discussions. 

It's always extremely dangerous to pick a decade and say "this is where it was the best", but exiting the 80's into the 90's is likely going to be my pick of the decade where Western culture peaked and has declined since. Of course, I expect everyone to have their own ideas on this point. <grin> 

And we had a WW TV show in the 70's and a Supergirl feature film in 1984.  Are the current movies and shows WW and SG better than that? Technically, yes. Absolutely. Otherwise...when it comes to characterization and storytelling... it's a pretty mixed bag.

Progress rarely comes with a capital 'P'. 

Shadar[/quote]

I thought last year's Wonder Woman and this year's Black Panther were better than anything I'd seen in the genre from the 70''s and the 80's. But I can't even drag myself to see the group movies, where it's all about the explosions and other SFX. I don't think much of the recent sf movies, either -- Blade Runner 2049 was a real let-down from the original, while Avatar was simple-minded and Interstellar and Prometheus were focused on supposed Deep Thoughts at the expense of believable stories. And the new entries in the Star Trek, Star Wars and Mad Max franchises are so dumb.

--Brantley

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24 Jun 2018 19:57 - 24 Jun 2018 19:59 #59992 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Season 4 - Supergirl transgender move?

I thought last year's Wonder Woman and this year's Black Panther were better than anything I'd seen in the genre from the 70''s and the 80's. But I can't even drag myself to see the group movies, where it's all about the explosions and other SFX. I don't think much of the recent sf movies, either -- Blade Runner 2049 was a real let-down from the original, while Avatar was simple-minded and Interstellar and Prometheus were focused on supposed Deep Thoughts at the expense of believable stories. And the new entries in the Star Trek, Star Wars and Mad Max franchises are so dumb.


Hmm,  gonna have to disagree with some parts here :)

I thought Wonder Woman 2017 was average at best, and Gal Gadot to me is NOT WW.  Theres only one, and her initials are LC :P 

Sure, technically the film looked way better then the series, but it lacked any charm.  Let alone the fact that Chris Pine (the supporting character) carried the whole film.  Which basically was Capt. America the First Avenger, just with his name crossed out and WW scribbled in.

Black Panther I agree was a solid film.  Blade Runner 2049, imo, was BETTER then the original.  It had the gorgeous visuals and sound of the original, but with a MUCH better narrative.  It was let down with some pacing issues, but apart from that, I found it great.  Definatley a cinema experience - I don't care how good your home equipment is, nothing beats seeing this in a WELL-EQUIPPED cinema.

Same with Mad Max.  That film is almost purely visual, and in that department it totally rocked.  Probably one of the best examples of cinematic storytelling I've seen in a while.

Avatar, agree, was just a dumb stinking pile of poo.  I have NEVER understood the praise that film gets tbh.  Interstellar was....ok... I guess.  Def not Nolan's best, but decent sci-fi.  Prometheous (and Convenant) were complete garbage.  In fact, a lot of Scott's work (and Scott himself) recently is garbage.

The Star Trek reboot to me was so so.  Good action slock, but certainly not Star Trek.

Peace.

/K
Last edit: 24 Jun 2018 19:59 by kikass2014.

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24 Jun 2018 20:13 #59993 by brantley
Replied by brantley on topic Season 4 - Supergirl transgender move?
It would be a boring world if everybody agreed about everything... :)

--Brantley
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25 Jun 2018 06:03 #59998 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Season 4 - Supergirl transgender move?

kikass2014 wrote:

I thought last year's Wonder Woman and this year's Black Panther were better than anything I'd seen in the genre from the 70''s and the 80's. But I can't even drag myself to see the group movies, where it's all about the explosions and other SFX. I don't think much of the recent sf movies, either -- Blade Runner 2049 was a real let-down from the original, while Avatar was simple-minded and Interstellar and Prometheus were focused on supposed Deep Thoughts at the expense of believable stories. And the new entries in the Star Trek, Star Wars and Mad Max franchises are so dumb.


Hmm,  gonna have to disagree with some parts here :)

I thought Wonder Woman 2017 was average at best, and Gal Gadot to me is NOT WW.  Theres only one, and her initials are LC :P 

Sure, technically the film looked way better then the series, but it lacked any charm.  Let alone the fact that Chris Pine (the supporting character) carried the whole film.  Which basically was Capt. America the First Avenger, just with his name crossed out and WW scribbled in.

Black Panther I agree was a solid film.  Blade Runner 2049, imo, was BETTER then the original.  It had the gorgeous visuals and sound of the original, but with a MUCH better narrative.  It was let down with some pacing issues, but apart from that, I found it great.  Definatley a cinema experience - I don't care how good your home equipment is, nothing beats seeing this in a WELL-EQUIPPED cinema.

Same with Mad Max.  That film is almost purely visual, and in that department it totally rocked.  Probably one of the best examples of cinematic storytelling I've seen in a while.

Avatar, agree, was just a dumb stinking pile of poo.  I have NEVER understood the praise that film gets tbh.  Interstellar was....ok... I guess.  Def not Nolan's best, but decent sci-fi.  Prometheous (and Convenant) were complete garbage.  In fact, a lot of Scott's work (and Scott himself) recently is garbage.

The Star Trek reboot to me was so so.  Good action slock, but certainly not Star Trek.

Peace.

/K


I find the list of movies interesting.
 
Everyone talks about Interstellar but I thought it was so-so.  Blade Runner 2049 was ok, but I don't think it was deep as it wanted to be.  Ex Machina and Arrival are much better Sci Fi movies.  Not even in the same class.  I think their (relatively small) budgets and focused cast/plot has a lot to do with that.  (and we won't even mention Prometheus, etc).

WW (2017) had flaws, but I can see it rising to greater heights than WW (TV).  Hopefully we'll get it from WW2. I'm not sure it has yet, lousy third act.  I love Linda Carter, but I can see something in Gal, and I think at times she did better than Linda.  She just needs a movie kicked up a notch and she'll shine.  It might be that I love her accent.

Black Panther and Thor Ragnarock are right up there with any Super-hero movie ever. It's also not lost on me that they're the last two marvel movies.  I wonder how good Ant-Man and the Wasp is going to be?   It gives me hope for Captain Marvel. Ragnarok is a surprisingly solid movie.  Good villian, great fights, awesome humor that doesn't undermine characterization, etc.  (OTH Guardians 2 wasn't as good as Guardians 1, it felt too safe and like it painted on the numbers from the first movie.  Though I will say that Kurt Russell NAILED a line is one of the best bits of understated acting. I knew he was good, but I thought he just stuck the landing perfectly.)

I have to concur that Luke Cage S2 is great.  Solid writing,defined characters, the view points flow out of the characters.  It's not just black/white, there's nuance.  "Good" characters disagree and "Bad" ones are complex.  I think all the people who are good make some mistakes and do bad things (except the guest stars). It's also pretty solid acting throughout the cast and makes the best argument for diversity: all actors knock it out of the park, but they're largly ignored as leading actors due to their skin color.  

There is a back-beat to S2 about violence and its affects on people.  It's told multiple times, in multiple characters.  It's not subtle, in fact it's brought out in the open a few times.  It doesn't hesitate to make Luke Cage look bad, if it's making him a full human being while it does so (rather than a simplistic "good guy").  Futhermore when you ask "Where's Danny Rand?", there's an answer. When you see him, there's an answer why he's there.

Also, minor spoilerly but the person missing that thing, gets the replacement that we've all be waiting for. ;-)  (I mean we all knew it was coming, so ... not really missing anything.  But I could feel my excitement building

Also, I generally HATE almost all musical interludes in shows, and even though the music in Luke Cage is almost all NOT music I'd chose to listen to, it all fits and made me want to listen to it as it was all well chosen.  It sets the mood, and paints a culture that is also not mine.  I think the show could be used as an example on things done right.
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25 Jun 2018 19:00 #60009 by andyf
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Melissa Benoist herself confirmed that His Nap would also be a superhero.

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