Amount

WW Movie. No Spoilers Please!

28 Jun 2017 13:23 #55053 by slim36

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Jun 2017 16:11 #55058 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic WW Movie. No Spoilers Please!
Pretty interesting article in the main.

I think, though, the author, like most modern readers, miss the point of Wonder Woman.

“However, Marston’s feminist message was undercut somewhat by his propensity to depict Wonder Woman tied up with ropes or chains. “


Wonder Woman wasn’t created as a feminist icon. She was created as a sex fantasy, in part, and something underneath I think that has gotten lost in time.

It has been noted, though the article skips over this, that Marston believed in restorative and transformative justice and rehabilitation.

Wonder Woman, as the champion of justice and love, was someone you (as a criminal) would willingly submit to and thus be rehabilitated. Vice Versa, the villains would want you to submit (and thus be punished) to their world views. Hence the bondage iconography can be seen to be the themes of crime and justice at play.

It can also be argued, that the idea Marston put forth, of men submitting themselves to women, wasn’t new. Instead it was a call back to the days of chivalry, with knights and ladies. The knights were typical males – loud, rude, arrogant, boisterous; but when a lady was present, you shut the fuck up and watched your manners. Ladies were held up as paragons of virtue, not the attention seeking porn sluts that plague the web and society today.

One other thing to note, it is funny how this article (and others) gloss over the relationship he had with his wife AND mistress. And even though his WIFE (reportedly) suggested the creation of Wonder Woman to him, the look of Wonder Woman is based on his mistress (apparently the bullet deflecting bracelets are modelled on similar jewellery she wore). Most fans know this, but it is curious that there isn’t a mention of it. Why is that? Does it not gel with the feminist agenda I wonder?

The simple fact is, going back to the beginning of this response, that she was not a feminist Icon, but one that has been appropriated by them.

This, and the fact that they have turned her into a sort of Xena: Warrior Princess, probably erks me the most with regards to the character. It would have been nice if she had continued in the original mould and explored that area more imo.

“Marston recommended an idea for a new kind of superhero, one who would conquer not with fists or firepower, but with love. "Fine," said Elizabeth. "But make her a woman.”


Just my 2 cents.

Peace.

/K

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Jun 2017 18:48 - 28 Jun 2017 18:49 #55059 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic WW Movie. No Spoilers Please!
I think of all the superheroes, WW has been the subject of the most re-interpretation and adoption by various groups.

Based on my reading, I agree mostly with Kikass who makes the point that she's a sexual fantasy created by Marston and inspired by his mistress. Whatever psychological mumbo-jumbo he might have spouted has pretty much been co-opted by other groups, most profoundly feminists.

None of that bothers me. Nor does it really matter what Marston had in mind because his character has long outlived him and has been pushed and pulled by the social conventions of the day (which are always changing).

I was just happy that the movie didn't go overboard in trying to feed into any one of those interpretations and just showed her as a demi-goddess who is trying to figure out what she is and what she should be doing in our world.

For me personally, I see her as an alternate "supergirl" who has an interesting origin and mission. She doesn't have Kryptonian baggage (or in many cases abilities), but her Greek goddess and Amazon culture is kind of fun.

When I rank superpowers (by their interest to me), my order is Superstrength, Invulnerability, Flight. WW ticks off all three, but not at Kryptonian levels or methods.

An arm-wrestling contest between WW and a Kryptonian (or for that matter my Supremis) would NOT be won by WW unless she did some magical goddess stuff.

I also don't see the lasso in a bondage context, but rather as a device to compel people to tell the truth. Given that all people begin lying at about age 3 and then some of us get very good at it (fiction writers are professional liars <grin>), a device to determine absolute truth is pretty neat. The fact that it's also a weapon is useful.

In the end, we all have intensely personal reactions to superheroines, and it's cool that they differ somewhat, especially from opinions expressed by reviewers who aren't really into the genre. Their comments are useful in that they might give us some indication (or at least boundaries) on what the non-genre viewers are thinking, and that can influence future films.

These films aren't made for us, the genre enthusiasts, but for the great unwashed public who have less thoughtful responses to superheroines, or perhaps are more interested in co-opting WW for their own causes.

TL;DR: As a group, our interests are not political or racial or feminist. We just like that she can toss a tank. <grin>

Shadar
Last edit: 28 Jun 2017 18:49 by shadar.
The following user(s) said Thank You: TwiceOnThursdays, kikass2014

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • shadar
  • shadar's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Uberposter par Excellence
  • Uberposter par Excellence
More
28 Jun 2017 20:05 #55060 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic WW Movie. No Spoilers Please!

TL;DR: As a group, our interests are not political or racial or feminist. We just like that she can toss a tank. <grin>


LOL this is true and well put Shadar :)

I guess my response was maybe geared more towards those outside this circle. Or maybe there are some who do view her through a feminist/political prism on this forum. Who knows. \shrug/

But yeah, ultimately for me it does come down, in the main, to this:

We just like that she can toss a tank. <grin>


Peace.

/K

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Jun 2017 01:38 #55062 by slim36
Replied by slim36 on topic WW Movie. No Spoilers Please!
www.metv.com/lists/12-little-blunders-yo...iced-in-wonder-woman ( the original tv series)
(see how well copy and paste works....)
12 little blunders you never noticed in 'Wonder Woman'
Even superhero shows have their weak spots.
By: MeTV Staff Posted: Feb 15, 2017, 1:24AM
Things you might not know

facebook
twitter
email

We all make mistakes, even superheroes. Well, to be fair to Lynda Carter, she is flawless as Wonder Woman. It was the crew around her that sometimes slipped up on the 1975–79 series.

There's no shame in these goofs. When you're making a science-fiction show on a limited budget, sometimes you just have to make shots work. It doesn't take the keen vision of Superman to spot mistakes even in the classics.

Previously, we found some minor errors in Star Trek, The Andy Griffith Show, Gilligan's Island and The Brady Bunch.

Now, let's take a close look at Wonder Woman.

Watch Wonder Woman on MeTV – Saturdays at 8 PM *available in most MeTV markets
1
Fake news

"The New Original Wonder Woman"

We start with the pilot episode that reintroduced the character in 1975. When Steve Trevor's plane goes down, a newspaper headline proclaims, "MAJOR STEVE TREVOR DIES IN CRASH." However, the fine print has nothing to do with such a story. The article reads, "Many persons feel at this stage that some legal action is forthcoming but it now becomes common knowledge that there is pressure from the inside…"

2
Have you seen the remote?

"The New Original Wonder Woman"

Later that episode, Diana must face Amazon VIII in a bullet-deflecting battle. When the Amazon women shield themselves with their bracelets, sparks flew from the jewelry. This little pyrotechnic effect is triggered with a remote, which you can occassionally glimpse in VIII's hand.

3
Pass the remote

"The Feminum Mystique: Part 1"

See? Here's Carter with the spark controller in a later episode. At least the little device appears to be gold, matching her outfit.

4
Sparks will fly

"The New Original Wonder Woman"

Back to the pilot movie. Later on, an old woman whips a machine gun out of her bag to take a shot at Wonder Woman, who is showing off her skills in a theater. Wonder Woman whips her arms around and blocks all the bullets. As it is a bigger weapon, bigger sparks fly. If you watch closely, you can see wires running from Carter's back, and up her arms affixed with tape, to produce the effect.

5
Taking out the trash

"Screaming Javelins"

No Wonder Woman effect is more iconic than the hero's transformative twirl. Diana Prince turns into Wonder Woman in a flash. You can catch some inconsistencies in those cuts. Take this one for example, from season two, when a trash can magically disappears.

6
Take a seat

"Wonder Woman Vs. Gargantua"

Back in season one, a similar goof happened, when a stool disappears after Diana transforms in Dr. Osmond's lab. The green stool shifts, too.

7
Wardrobe malfunction

"Knockout"

Here's another transformation error. In "Knockout," Diana gets into a car wearing a pretty purple floral dress. She escapes from the car and runs into the woods to transform into Wonder Woman. They try to hide it with a red flash and a quick cut, but Carter is clearly wearing an entirely different outfit.

8
Heel today, gone tomorrow

"IRAC Is Missing"

While we're on the topic of inconsistent clothing, keep an eye on Wonder Woman's boots throughout the series. We'll use this episode as an example, when she fights the laser in a giant padded room. In the hallway, Carter wears her stylish red boots with heels. When it comes time for stunts, her boots are flats. Let's be honest, Wonder Woman should just be wearing practical flats at all times.

9
Monkey business

"Wonder Woman Vs. Gargantua"

It's no secret that Gargantua is not a real gorilla. He is quite clearly a man in a suit. However, they don't hide it very well when the big ape crawls up and down a building. You can see the skin of the actor's hands on the way up, as the makeup rubs off. Later, on his descent, the cuff of his gorilla pants can be seen slipping up above his shoes.

10
Jack of all trades

"The Deadly Toys"

Alas, Lynda Carter did not actually lift trucks with her own brute strength. In this Christmas episode, Wonder Woman lifts the back of a yellow van to keep it from speeding away. You can clearly spot the jack lifting the tires off the ground.

11
Back pack

"The Feminum Mystique: Part 1"

Stuntmen need their protection. Wonder Woman flips a random MP out of a jeep. The actor has a large pad stuffed into his shirt. Unfortunately, he seems to land right on his tailbone. Ouch! Being a stuntman is rough work.

12
Pool me once…

"The Bermuda Triangle Crisis"

Who could forget those episodes in which Wonder Women sports her blue jumpsuit? In this debut of the blue wetsuit, Wonder Woman tosses a mine into the "ocean." However, when it cuts underwater, the body of water is clearly a swimming pool. You can see the walls, the surface of the water, and even a drain or lamp.

SEE MORE: 10 MINOR GOOFS YOU NEVER NOTICED IN 'STAR TREK'

They should have used tighter screws on those command consoles. READ MORE

Love memorable entertainment? Find out where to watch MeTV
Related Links
The following user(s) said Thank You: Monty, kikass2014

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Jun 2017 05:44 - 29 Jun 2017 06:06 #55065 by Monty
Replied by Monty on topic WW Movie. No Spoilers Please!
Don't care. Lynda Carter is Stunning as Diana Prince and Wonder Woman (although I will have to check my DVD's for the above information.) :)
Last edit: 29 Jun 2017 06:06 by Monty.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Jun 2017 18:51 #55074 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic WW Movie. No Spoilers Please!
Yeah, I'm with Monty on this :P Lynda Carter will always be Diana Prince/Wonder Woman to me :)

Fun to read those bloopers those :D Will keep an eye out for them next time I watch the episodes :)

Peace.

/K

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Jun 2017 19:31 #55075 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic WW Movie. No Spoilers Please!

kikass2014 wrote: Yeah, I'm with Monty on this :P Lynda Carter will always be Diana Prince/Wonder Woman to me :)

Fun to read those bloopers those :D Will keep an eye out for them next time I watch the episodes :)

Peace.

/K


Funny that Lynda Carter as WW never worked for me. She looked nothing like an Amazon, at least in my book. The show was cheesy. But I might think differently if I'd been a teenager then. Instead, I was 30. Too old for that show.

Now that I'm really old, I find the WW movie a revelation. Much closer to my vision of the character. I like that the movies are catching up with my hopes from 40 years ago.

Funny how we can have such wildly different perceptions. But it's all good.

Shadar
The following user(s) said Thank You: kikass2014

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • shadar
  • shadar's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Uberposter par Excellence
  • Uberposter par Excellence
More
29 Jun 2017 22:43 #55079 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic WW Movie. No Spoilers Please!
I think part of it does have to do with the age you were at the time, that is true.

Its also like you say, she didn't look like an "amazon" to you. And I agree, she doesn't. But for me, that is part of the charm.

Another part, personally, of it is the fact that she was sooooo stunningly beautiful, in every way, that she embodied the "Wonder" in Wonder Woman. Like literally to this day, me and my friends still hold her up as, probably, the most beautiful woman we have seen* (and they don't even like Wonder Woman).

From a comic book perspective, I always felt that Carter's WW captured part of the original essence of the character. Like, she could handle herself, but she always seemed reluctant to use her fists. Instead, preferring to rationalize with the criminal first. Now, to be honest, its been a while since I saw it, so my memory may be sketchy on that. But that's how I remember it.

Sure, the show was never a great work of art. But to be fair, I wouldn't put it worse then any of the other shows in that genre around that time. For example, Bionic Woman, Buck Rodgers, Battlestar Galactica, etc. And I would imagine a lot of that "campiness" was down to limitations in technology and film/tv knowledge. But still, it provided a fun bit of escapism for a while :)

Funny how we can have such wildly different perceptions. But it's all good.


I agree :) You could equate it to how some men prefer blondes, others brunettes. You like your super women one way, I prefer mine another. We both prefer super women to normal women though :P

Peace.

/K

*Beauty of course being in the eye of the beholder. But I think you could make a SOLID case for Lynda Carter being OBJECTIVELY stunning :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Jun 2017 00:34 #55081 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic WW Movie. No Spoilers Please!

kikass2014 wrote: *Beauty of course being in the eye of the beholder. But I think you could make a SOLID case for Lynda Carter being OBJECTIVELY stunning :)


No argument there at all. Not even a little. :lol:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • shadar
  • shadar's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Uberposter par Excellence
  • Uberposter par Excellence
More
Time to create page: 0.077 seconds