Amount

Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia

22 Feb 2017 16:19 #52711 by lfan
Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia was created by lfan
The fascination of "girls with superpowers" is one that I think I share with several on this board. Truth be told, it was the primary impetus for starting Supergirls, Inc a while ago and has led to taking over SWM. In the early days of the internet, I noticed there were plenty of sites that catered to hulking giantesses and brawny amazons, and while I found myself occassionally on those site, there was something that caused a disconnect for me. I loved the superstrength and power aspect but not so much the physical appearances of the women, whether it be abnormal height (giantess) or abnormal musculature (amazonian). Now don't get me wrong, I think muscle in the right dosage is sexy as hell. Furthermore, I actually prefer the hypertoned (not hyper muscular) supergirl to a waifish one. A fitness girl's physique to me my nearly ideal fantasy body type.

Anyways, over the years in this genre, I have noticed people with differing tastes when it comes to "what kind of supergirl pushes your buttons". I guess I was really tuned into this when I was perusing some of my favorite interactive stories on writing.com which became a literary "tug-of-war" into whether the girls would stay lithe or grow super muscular or grow even into giantesses. So it got me thinking about tossing the bait here to see what people here prefer: Sthenolagnia or Cratolagnia.

I never really heard of the terms either until I looked it up but low and behold, there is an actual NAME for our fetish...er....interest. That alone should tell us we're not alone! :) "sthenolagnia" is defined as an “arousal from displaying strength or muscles” while it's bretheren, Cratolagnia means “arousal from strength.” While I've always hated the words "fetish" and "arousal", they are fairly accurate.

Most of the classic comic book heroines (e.g. supergirl, mary marvel, rogue, Ms Marvel) seem to fall in the cratolagnia category if you were to map them merely by bodytype/powers, while some others (WW, Shehulk) seem to be more apropos to sthenolagnia lovers. While I'm not "picky" in terms of characters, I definitely gravitate toward the Supergirl side of the spectrum. If fact, while I often love Shulkie, I find her very unappealing when they draw her "much larger". I guess I'm in a 3rd category called "cratolagnia WITHOUT sthenolagnia" cause the minute they start getting too large, the attraction wears off. Bigger is not always better for me.

One of the reasons I loved Deep Down Inside by Circes so much is the fact it hit on so many buttons for me. One such example was in Chapter 6 where Vicki is playing with the control module and uses it for the first time to affect her strength levels, turning her from a gorgeous supermodel to a musclebound amazon:

"I'm speechless," Chris offered, as she racked the bar. "How did you change instantly into this beefy muscle girl? You're as strong as an Olympian," he paused, appraising her. "Or maybe stronger."

But Vicky didn't reply. Despite the compliment, he looked nervous, she noted, and the bulge in his pants had quickly disappeared. Being around her was no longer a turn on for him, Vicky noted sadly.

As she reviewed her body, she could see why. Many of her muscles had grown to the point where they looked almost silly. They were large enough to limit her range of movement, like a child bundled in too many sweaters during an afternoon in the snow. Also, huge blue veins were visible under her skin. And the graceful feminine curves which once turned so many heads were replaced by tightly chiseled, almost grotesque right angles. Her presence was not seductive, just intimidating.

"I'm not sure I like it," Vicky mused as she contemplated her voluminous forearms carefully. "I'm not pretty anymore."


Quickly after that, Vicki does some modifications and turns herself into a full-blown ubergirl with supermodel curves & superhero strength. Vicki's reaction is precisely is my views on "Sthenolagnia or Cratolagnia" summed up in prose. I heart Vicki! :)

Anyways, I know I am not alone, and I know that my viewed is not shared by everyone. One merely needs to spend 30 seconds on amaz0ns.com's forums to realize the prevailing sentiment there is "bigger is better" and "much bigger is much better". While I don't personally agree, I love the dichotomy, especially when reading "FMG fiction" which tends to skew HEAVILY towards women with muscles and more realistic strength levels (bending bars is about the max) rather than my fantasy girl that can lift a locomotive with one hand and look great doing it.

I was having a convo with AuGoose this morning about authors wanting to know what people here want to see, so consider this a first exercise in ubergirl marketing research. Where in the "Sthenolagnia or Cratolagnia" spectrum do you all fall?

ElF
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sarge395, Kamelmann, Pepper, Ravens_ghost, fats, SCOTT R, sidd1333, aguilauno, TwiceOnThursdays, Monty, AuGoose, Ta

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • lfan
  • lfan's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • SWM - Administrator
  • SWM - Administrator
More
22 Feb 2017 17:13 - 22 Feb 2017 18:20 #52713 by Monty
Replied by Monty on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia
Thanks ElF. I know from discussions with yourself, you favour the slim, toned look and for many years since 1984 Supergirl, I really liked the Helen Slater look, but still having phenomenal power under a yellow sun. This works with the Kryptonian physiology (and with Melissa too). Having read Circes' great work on La Porte Caves, I feel drawn to the fact that Julia, Mindy and Ruth are far better displayed as they are with real muscles and far superior power to the men. It's more realistic and I think it makes more sense. (Although I still fancy the hell out of Helen Slater in '84, way over Melissa)!
:) :super:

ETA Are you thinking of the West Twins as your ideal models?
Last edit: 22 Feb 2017 18:20 by Monty.
The following user(s) said Thank You: lfan, SCOTT R

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Feb 2017 18:42 #52717 by Pepper
Replied by Pepper on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia

lfan wrote: I was having a convo with AuGoose this morning about authors wanting to know what people here want to see, so consider this a first exercise in ubergirl marketing research.

My own preference probably lines up pretty well with yours; I like a rather trimly athletic kind of body (what I think of as being a dancer's physique).

However, what I want to see is people writing what works for them. Art by committee doesn't work. Write the stories you want, in the way you want them, and if I find a few that tickle my fancy, hooray.
The following user(s) said Thank You: lfan, SCOTT R

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Feb 2017 19:26 #52718 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia

Monty wrote: Thanks ElF. I know from discussions with yourself, you favour the slim, toned look and for many years since 1984 Supergirl, I really liked the Helen Slater look, but still having phenomenal power under a yellow sun. This works with the Kryptonian physiology (and with Melissa too). Having read Circes' great work on La Porte Caves, I feel drawn to the fact that Julia, Mindy and Ruth are far better displayed as they are with real muscles and far superior power to the men. It's more realistic and I think it makes more sense. (Although I still fancy the hell out of Helen Slater in '84, way over Melissa)!
:) :super:

ETA Are you thinking of the West Twins as your ideal models?


It's funny that you mention Laporte, as it features girls that I wouldn't necessarily gravitate towards, but Circes manages to pull me in with his writing. I still prefer DDI, but LPC is fantastic as well. Par of the fun at reading others' stories for me is setting my mind's eye for each character and imaging what they would look like in a real life action movie of the same ilk. For example, Of course, with 7ft amazons as leading characters, this is somewhat difficult so that's where modeling often is useful, but I still try imagining the body types. For example, this to me is Julia (from LPC), though not as massively imposing as probably she is intended to be:



The physique of the West Twins is pretty spot-on for me. The fitness model look with the right dose of curves really does it for me. Past & present inspirational muses for me include DeeAnn Donovan, Narmin Assria (my inspiration for SENsational's Priya), Gia McCool, Timea Majorova, and Stephanie Sanzo just to name a couple......

So many muses......

So many muses out there though......

This message has an attachment image.
Please log in or register to see it.

The following user(s) said Thank You: Ravens_ghost, SCOTT R

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • lfan
  • lfan's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • SWM - Administrator
  • SWM - Administrator
More
22 Feb 2017 19:46 #52719 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia
I am a bit more along the Sthenolagnia curve than lfan. But I agree "bigger is not always better". Where I differ with lfan is that I think my "bigger" range is a bit higher. But there is a point where visually it's a bit absurd. I can take some absurd levels in text stories and enjoy it.

I don't mind height increases, and can enjoy it to a minor point. She-Hulk level height increases, yeah, that can really work for me depending on the rest of things. I tend to want to see some muscle growth if I'm getting a giantess (I guess it's a Shulkie effect there again too). But once we go "a real giantesss" (10+ feet tall), I might appreciate the story, but likely not _appreciate_ the story. That level that lfan was talking about. And I'm usually a bit upset when She-Hulk is shown looking like a tall green super-model, all thin with arms w/o any muscle on them.

I also seem to have a fairly wide range. I think in the end, strength > muscle to me. As I can take a waif with super-strength and really enjoy it. Add some muscle tone and it spices it up for me nicely, but sometimes you don't want Jalapenos on your pizza even thogh you love them. I do prefer toned to slightly larger than fitness (or low female bodybuilder but not the super-low bodyfat levels), but it's certainly not needed. And I can take much larger than that and still be in the game. I'll really enjoy all of say Lingster's renderings (and stories), and have even commissioned a few things more extreme than that. But it's not where the main interest lies.

Though it's a good test to look though my deviant art gallery and see the ranges there. cerebus873.deviantart.com/gallery/ . You'll find lots of Supergirl, but also Big Barda, She-Hulk, Titania, comissions from Dave Matthews and mg4x (who are both at the upper end of where i'd go).

I do remember that when commissioning Night Girl, I had to send a muscular reference and tell the artist to punch up her arms a bit to get where I liked, but the end result was one of my favorite commissions.

(you can go to my DA Gallery and see it MUCH larger.)

I'm She-Hulk > Supergirl -- but there are also other dynamics in play with that. There is something in the gaining of strength that I really like. Supergirl, she's just Supergirl most of the time, and when she doesn't have powers, the story is about her purposely being made WEAK, which doesn't appeal to me. There is a slight uptick in the story when she gets her powers back, but it's unsatifying in the setup that the story is about her being WEAK. (OTH, these stories often have GREAT character development, but that's not what we're talking about here.)

She-Hulk on the other hand, especialy at the beginning, reverted back to her normal human form. She wasn't being made artifically weak, it was something she did and later when she had control, it was things in her life (the one law firm wanted her to be "jen" not "she-hulk"). So then in the story when she actuallly transformed, I really liked that part. Come to think of it, Ms. Marvel did that at the very begining as well, and I remember being much more excited about her than I had bee about Supergirl (but < She-Hulk). Though I remember REALLY loving it in Ms. Marvel (#7?) when it's revealed that she doesn't need her suit, she has powers on her own, and she actually is powered ALL the time.

Similarly, I love Rogue, and I really loved Avengers Annual #10 when she sucked Thor dry, and the Wonder Man _bounced_ off her. Or other times when she takes on a LOT of power.

OTH, just muscle growth alone can facinate me (though that will naturally come with a strength increase). It's just that even normal levels of strength gain can work for me, so it doesn't have to be "can lift battleship with her finger".

This is really an intersting topic overall. As I haven't really figured out the "would you rather' --- have a story with muscle growth and human-ish levels of gain (2-3x), or a great looking woman, maybe only sightly toned, who can juggle jumbo jets with ease.

I think my answer is "Yes". And the range in between.

I also have to say there have been a few moments recently when I think Supergirl (TV Show) has done a pose when I go "aw yiss, that's what i'm talking about". She's really hitting some of the marks this year .... just not often enough.

This message has an attachment image.
Please log in or register to see it.

The following user(s) said Thank You: lfan, Ravens_ghost, SCOTT R

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • TwiceOnThursdays
  • TwiceOnThursdays's Avatar
  • Online
  • Uberposter
  • Uberposter
More
22 Feb 2017 19:53 #52720 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia

Pepper wrote:

lfan wrote: However, what I want to see is people writing what works for them. Art by committee doesn't work. Write the stories you want, in the way you want them, and if I find a few that tickle my fancy, hooray.


Agree 1000%....purpose of the thread was to just see how people felt about the two and why. Just wanted to be clear that I'm not trying to impose my personal image of the "ideal supergirl" on anyone. Write and draw with your heart. Variety is the spice of life!

ElF

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • lfan
  • lfan's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • SWM - Administrator
  • SWM - Administrator
More
22 Feb 2017 21:25 #52722 by Pepper
Replied by Pepper on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia

lfan wrote: Agree 1000%....purpose of the thread was to just see how people felt about the two and why. Just wanted to be clear that I'm not trying to impose my personal image of the "ideal supergirl" on anyone. Write and draw with your heart. Variety is the spice of life!

ElF

Yeah, but once you start getting opinions it can be a lot more than just body type; it can be face, and eyes, and hair, and intelligence, and attitude, and voice, and clothes, and probably a whole lot more. (It is for me, at least.) She Hulk's size makes less difference than her personality. I've never really gotten the appeal of stories that were all about destruction, intimidation, or degradation. If you can't do something creative and useful with powers, what's the point? But I'm sure stories like that have their fans, and will continue to be written.

As for ideal body type, this is pretty damn close.
The following user(s) said Thank You: SCOTT R

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Feb 2017 22:00 #52723 by AuGoose
Replied by AuGoose on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia

Pepper wrote: My own preference probably lines up pretty well with yours; I like a rather trimly athletic kind of body (what I think of as being a dancer's physique).


Mmmm. 'Dancer's physique'. Words to conjure with ;).

I've found a decade worth of playing with MMO character builders (and more recently rendering software) has really let me discover my own tastes in exquisite detail. I enjoy a fairly broad range of possible combinations of the female form. And there are occasions where I'm perfectly happy to slam the sliders to 'max everything' and just gawk at Jessica Rabbit Reborn for a few minutes. Or She Hulk muscles on top of muscles. Extreme morphology. But those are temporary thrills.

Outside of such momentary dalliances, my enduring regard goes to a 'swimmer's build' or 'a marathon runner'. Strong - powerfully so. But rigged for endurance over burst performance. Dancers too :).

Mmmmm...

However, what I want to see is people writing what works for them. Art by committee doesn't work. Write the stories you want, in the way you want them, and if I find a few that tickle my fancy, hooray.


In my case what works for me IS hearing about other people's interests - and to a degree, seeing them open up enough to share those interests/talk about it at all. We have a limited pool of regular authors... but its possible we have an even smaller pool of non-author readers who will write feedback. Never underestimate the power of saying "I like this" to get you more of what you want. Because stories that readers enjoy is 'the way I want them' :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: lfan, SCOTT R, Monty

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Feb 2017 23:29 #52725 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia
I don't know exaclty where I would fit on the scale because I tend to like the narrative effect more than the description in and of itself. A display of strength from a character that doesn't appear imposing (i.e. cratolagnia) it's always athrill, but I think it reach it maximum effect when it comes out of the blue, surprising both the reader and the other characters. Whereas a more outwardly and apparent physique lend itself better to scenes that involve intimidation and visual confrontation (sthenolagnia). I think that both have their charms and both have their place.

I think that, at the end of the day, I prefer my girls to be at least somehow visually buffed, the rail thin supermodel look or, even worse, the stick with boobs aren't really that appealing. If I look at comic books my favorite artist from recent memory is Amanda Conner -- who has draw some pretty buffed characters over the years, while I have never been able to see the appeal of Jim Lee's way of drawing female characters. Even better it's probably transitioning from one state to the other, so that the physical changes somehow mirror the increased mastery over the character's power. It doen, no matter if this means going from petite but super-strong to amazonian to showcase increased confidence, or from hulking to small because the character learned how to gauge her strength better.

The only real point of no return for me is going to the extreme without any good reason.

(formerly Anon, still Librarian)

"What is the point of having free will if one cannot occasionally spit in the eye of destiny?" ("Gentleman" John Marcone)
The following user(s) said Thank You: lfan, SCOTT R

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Feb 2017 23:34 - 23 Feb 2017 00:11 #52726 by Monty
Replied by Monty on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia
Double post ..
Last edit: 23 Feb 2017 00:11 by Monty.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Feb 2017 23:39 #52727 by Sarge395
Replied by Sarge395 on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia
I prefer a range from Victoria's Secret model to busty stripper and a nice side of fitness/swimsuit model. A healthy firm bust size is a plus. D cup or bigger.

Big muscles are out for me. Height is ok but prefer the diminutive sizes from 5' to 5' 8".

Youngish Supergirl to PowerGirl to Foxtrot3D.

Once I read Hulk proportions or 10 feet tall I usually move on.
The following user(s) said Thank You: SCOTT R

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Sarge395
  • Sarge395's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Uberposter of Distinction
  • Uberposter of Distinction
More
22 Feb 2017 23:39 #52728 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia
For sheer body type AZ Powergirl is the ideal for me.
She has mentioned that she is 5'5" tall and she does not give out her weight or measurements.
I find her proportions just about perfect.

This message has an attachment image.
Please log in or register to see it.

The following user(s) said Thank You: lfan, Sarge395, SCOTT R

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Markiehoe
  • Markiehoe's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Uberposter of Distinction
  • Uberposter of Distinction
More
22 Feb 2017 23:47 #52729 by njae
Replied by njae on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia
When it comes to body shapes, I am more in the fitness model/dancers physique area as well. At some point the thighs/shoulders/biceps get too large and are no longer appealing to me. Can't really pinpoint where exactly that point lies, but it's there.

On the other hand my preference is about normal women becoming super which has to include a makeover. And of course muscle growth is a part of this. Weirdly enough super feats of strength aren't that necessary. Super strength is present, but it doesn't have to be used. In fact it doesn't have to be ridiculously high either. Flight on the other hand should be displayed whenever the character can get away with it. Maybe Serena would be the best desciption for me here. The main character goes from overweight to super sexy and even becomes more toned when she taps into her super strength. But after she tests out her super strength, she barely uses it. To be fair the plot doesn't go far beyond her testing out her powers, but she clearly loved floating around than carrying/bending stuff.

So I guess "Rather low Sthenolagnia" for me.

New Deviantart, setup in progress
njae2.deviantart.com/
The following user(s) said Thank You: SCOTT R

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Feb 2017 23:54 - 23 Feb 2017 00:00 #52730 by Monty
Replied by Monty on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia

Monty wrote: I just had a thought. Think of Tetsuko for super muscles and super-strenģth. I gotta find a link to her lifting a bank robber's car clean off the ground. Could a slim waif of a lass do this? Even although the robber(s) look strong, they are no match for Tetsuko, so yes, even although it is only a cartoon / drawing, I think muscle enhancement works for our Supergirls!

www.deviantart.com/browse/all/fanart/car...be-tavern%2F25038156

Last edit: 23 Feb 2017 00:00 by Monty.
The following user(s) said Thank You: SCOTT R

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 Feb 2017 00:13 #52731 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia

Markiehoe wrote: For sheer body type AZ Powergirl is the ideal for me.
She has mentioned that she is 5'5" tall and she does not give out her weight or measurements.
I find her proportions just about perfect.


Can't really disagree as she is the quintessential Powergirl in terms of physical appearance. Shame she wasn't closer to Central FL, as she'd make a great Ms victory!!

ElF
The following user(s) said Thank You: SCOTT R, Markiehoe

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • lfan
  • lfan's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • SWM - Administrator
  • SWM - Administrator
More
23 Feb 2017 02:01 #52732 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia
^Me Too^
The following user(s) said Thank You: SCOTT R, Monty

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Markiehoe
  • Markiehoe's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Uberposter of Distinction
  • Uberposter of Distinction
More
23 Feb 2017 07:05 #52736 by SCOTT R
Replied by SCOTT R on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia
AZ POWERGIRL....OH YES!
The following user(s) said Thank You: Markiehoe

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 Feb 2017 11:38 #52738 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia

"sthenolagnia" is defined as an “arousal from displaying strength or muscles” while it's bretheren, Cratolagnia means “arousal from strength.”


Wow, that is interesting. I did not even imagine that it was a classified condition, let alone one that existed :) Nice find and thank you. Always nice to learn something that you are completely unaware even exists :)

In regards to the other questions, I guess for me it depends. Sometimes its one, sometimes its the other, and sometimes both, if that makes sense.

I also tend to ere on the side of Sarge in general, in terms of appearance. Muscular isn't a no-no, but there is a definitely a limit. Busty and wholesome for sure. And with regards to stature, I prefer taller women, around the 6-foot mark (no giantesses pls).

Hmm, interesting thread.

Peace.

/K
The following user(s) said Thank You: lfan

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 Feb 2017 14:06 - 23 Feb 2017 16:38 #52739 by LustMonster
Replied by LustMonster on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia
To celebrate their cessation of hostilities after years of destructive superwoman battle, the two former Soviet republics decided to hold a Rumble Ball tournament.

Sthenolagnia sent its squad to Augoosta, the capital city of its neighbor and long time enemy Cratolagnia. The crowd in the packed stadium roared and jeered as a dozen huge muscle goddesses stomped off the team personnel carrier and onto the field. Several of the huge ballers displayed their strength by tearing off pieces of the craft as they exited it, crumpling them into tight wads of tortured metal to be crushed between swelling pecs or thighs.

Waiting for them on the field, the tall, beautiful, svelte Crat team members stood with hands on dainty hips, smirking as they watched their opponents' beastly theatrics. The home team intended to show these stomping brutes (once again!) that muscle wasn't everything, in Rumble Ball as well as in battle...
Last edit: 23 Feb 2017 16:38 by LustMonster.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Woodclaw, AuGoose, TheOne25

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 Feb 2017 15:56 #52741 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Sthenolagnia vs Cratolagnia
I guess I'm in the Cratolagnia camp. Love the look of a seemingly normal girl doing "super" things. The woman who is in shape, yet still attractive is my ideal body type. Too skinny is bad, but too muscular is also bad.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Time to create page: 0.133 seconds