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Spider-man in the MCU

10 Feb 2015 12:28 #40334 by TwiceOnThursdays
Spider-man in the MCU was created by TwiceOnThursdays
A bit off topic, but I think still interesting: marvel.com/news/movies/24062/sony_pictur..._world_of_spider-man

The on topic part is that if there were characters tied up by the deal they might be released. I've heard said over the years that Jessica Drew was covered (though she shouldn't have been). I think with the hydra/spy angle playing big, she would fit ringht into the movies.

Also, marvel heroes in spider movies. He's flirted a lot with Captain Marvel ( I think spider is one of us, he likes strong women). She might make a good cameo.

Now we need to get all the mutants back. And even though back in the day I was a huge FF fan back in the day, today I say don't bother.

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10 Feb 2015 14:55 #40337 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Spider-man in the MCU
Good point. I didn't even think about the Spider-Man females that may get freed up to appear in the MCU. In addition to Jessica Drew, you could have Black Cat too.

In general, I'm just glad that Spidey is now a part of the MCU. He played a big part in the Civil War storyline so he could be appearing in the next Captain America movie.

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10 Feb 2015 15:37 #40338 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Spider-man in the MCU
A story came out a little while ago (I think there is a thread somewhere on here for it) that Sony announced a "female-led" movie in the Spiderverse coming in 2017. Speculation was whether this was Spiderwoman, Black Cat, Silver Sable, MJ, Gwen, etc.....

I think this news puts a bullet in the head of this idea, at least for a while. I loved the Spider movies with Tobey, but it seems like they're just cramming Spiderman down our throat at this point. This is potentially the THIRD reboot of this character?!?!? With his stock plummeting (see ASM2), and the rest of Marvel riding high (for now), I hope they just don't shoehorn him into the Avengers just "because people know Spiderman"....

ElF

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: A bit off topic, but I think still interesting: marvel.com/news/movies/24062/sony_pictur..._world_of_spider-man

The on topic part is that if there were characters tied up by the deal they might be released. I've heard said over the years that Jessica Drew was covered (though she shouldn't have been). I think with the hydra/spy angle playing big, she would fit ringht into the movies.

Also, marvel heroes in spider movies. He's flirted a lot with Captain Marvel ( I think spider is one of us, he likes strong women). She might make a good cameo.

Now we need to get all the mutants back. And even though back in the day I was a huge FF fan back in the day, today I say don't bother.

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10 Feb 2015 16:31 #40339 by Agent00Soul
Replied by Agent00Soul on topic Spider-man in the MCU
I have to admit that I'm so out of touch with the mainstream Marvel comic book continuity - I tend to read limited series only these days and never read The Avengers - that I had no idea until fairly recently that Spider-Man is actually a member of the Avengers these days. That really blows my mind because when I was growing up, part of Spidey's whole schtick was that he refused to join a team and stuck to Team-Ups.

For that matter, I was also surprised Wolverine is now an Avenger too. I guess anti-establishment types of all stripes are being let into the mansion these days...

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10 Feb 2015 18:50 #40341 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Spider-man in the MCU

lfan wrote: A story came out a little while ago (I think there is a thread somewhere on here for it) that Sony announced a "female-led" movie in the Spiderverse coming in 2017. Speculation was whether this was Spiderwoman, Black Cat, Silver Sable, MJ, Gwen, etc.....

I think this news puts a bullet in the head of this idea, at least for a while. I loved the Spider movies with Tobey, but it seems like they're just cramming Spiderman down our throat at this point. This is potentially the THIRD reboot of this character?!?!? With his stock plummeting (see ASM2), and the rest of Marvel riding high (for now), I hope they just don't shoehorn him into the Avengers just "because people know Spiderman"....

ElF

]


You have a good point.

Yes People have heard of Spiderman-but for Marvel at least it doesn't seem to make that much of a diffrence.

Last years most successful movie(much more then Spiderman) was Guardians of Galaxy a movie that before hand was a group of comicbook caracters that i am going to bet no one heard of, that never sold all that great by comic standards. Much better then the well known Flagship character Spiderman.

Iron Man before RDJ was around...but not much. He had a UPN Cartoon in the 90s. Thor similarly has been a kind of bubble character in popular concept for decades, but never that big. (Captian America i think was more popular then both-but well i am not sure huge). Now there working on Antman a character who just got his own comicbook a couple of months ago after having it canceled years ago.

Hulk was for a while Marvels second biggest character-but well his movies in both iterations both just did okay.

I honestly don't think it matters much at all.

Spiderman is in such diffrent tone that MCU stuff. Its street level stuff where hes an adventurer-but also dealing with the fact that hes broke. I always thought next to tony stark or the fantastic four-he seems a touch silly. Pushing Spiderman next to Iron man could make him a butt of a joke

X-men was mentioned and while i don't think those movies are always great, i can respect that they do have there own tone, and they stick with there slightly harder edge.

Also yeah likely we are going to loose the female centric Spider movie which is a bit of a bummer, and they are pushing back Captian Marvel for this opertunity-but well will see.

Castor

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10 Feb 2015 21:47 #40345 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Spider-man in the MCU
How about a teenage Miles Morales as Spiderman in the MCU?

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11 Feb 2015 05:16 #40348 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Spider-man in the MCU

castor wrote:
Spiderman is in such diffrent tone that MCU stuff. Its street level stuff where hes an adventurer-but also dealing with the fact that hes broke. I always thought next to tony stark or the fantastic four-he seems a touch silly. Pushing Spiderman next to Iron man could make him a butt of a joke

Castor


I have to respectfully disagree with this.

I used to be a HUGE Fantastic Four Fan, and Spidey always works well with them. There is a long history here dating back to Amazing Spider-man #1. It's literally the second Spider-Man story. The Fantastic Four, if told right, is a story about Family and Adventuring. Peter's story, among other things, is also a story about family. You can't even begin to explain who Peter is without Aunt May and Uncle Ben.

He drops in and relates to them, and wishes he could live in their world -- but he can't -- he's got other obligations. He can visit and hang out for awhile. And in a way, it adds to the tragedy that is Peter Parker. He's smart enough to hang with Mr. Fantastic for awhile (at least catch some of what is going on). He relates well with the rest of the team. Ben Grimm gets him, they share that "life sucks" vibe. Sue has this big sister/mother thing going with him. I think she can't help it. Early on it's because of Johnny, and I think she just picks up that Spidey NEEDS someone, no one in his life knows who he is, and he's all alone trying to cope. And ultimately, despite the pranks, he's a good influence on Johnny. She sees all that without being told. Sue is like that.

And the Spider-man/Human Torch friendly rivalry was always very fun.

This makes him fit as an awkward nephew/uncle or something, but he's not silly or a joke. If he was, it wouldn't be tragic that he can't stay there.

The Avengers line up includes Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Captain America. Yes those three are plugged into the spy world to some extent too, and that makes them fit into the MCU at the moment. But during the fights, Spider-Man will fit right in, and even work to add the spots of levity that made The Avengers movie work. I'm not sure Avengers works without Hulk side punching Thor, "Puny God", the $10 bet between Rodgers/Fury, Widow out-conning Loki, etc. In other words that humor is what makes thing tick.

Spider-man will give them opportunity to add more of those comic beats, while also giving them a character that looks pretty awesome on screen. The Spider-Man movies don't fail because of visual effects they generally fail due to focus of the story. I don't think he'll detract from the story, and he can add to the glitz.

He's showing up first in Captain America Civil War. That story needs a few heroes. And also need some street level heroes. (And Spidey was uncharacteristically on the wrong side during that story, and it was because of Tony Stark. ) But nothing really upsets me more than doing shock things to make a story and then planing to wipe them out later (Spider-Man revealing his identity.) Yes, I'm not a big fan of Civil War. I'll charitably say that it's topic was on point for the time, and it was an ambitious story, but there were too many times that plot points were made by fiat, "It happened this way because we said it happened this way", when how/what happened doesn't make any sense. And then they hang the rest of the story on those ideas. Maybe it'll play better in Captain America: Civil War.

Oddly this is also a story where Spidey's trademark humor is not on show, and won't help the movie. It won't do people well to see "the new Spidey" acting all angsty and mopey and not at all fun while in costume. Peter is emo, Spidey is fun. But not in Civil War. I'm skeptical of Civil War, but I have to admit it's because I have so many problems with the source material. The movie could very well address all those, it'll have to change a lot, as the original story is pretty tied to the MU of the time.

So, for a different reason I think it'll be a bad idea for Civil War, but think he'd work well in the Avengers. And yes next to Tony Stark.

I do agree that Marvel has been doing really well with using their lesser known characters to good effect. They don't really NEED Spider-Man. And it's upsetting that this pushed back Black Panther and Captain Marvel.

And to a certain extent I think the lesser known characters .... allow a bit of Freedom. You can play with them a bit more, and then have a better chance to make things work. The big names, well, too many cooks come into the kitchen. And Ant-Man is making me wonder if this is wearing off for marvel. I can't wait to see Ant-Man to see if it's any good.

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11 Feb 2015 06:37 #40349 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Spider-man in the MCU

TwiceOnThursdays wrote:

castor wrote:
Spiderman is in such diffrent tone that MCU stuff. Its street level stuff where hes an adventurer-but also dealing with the fact that hes broke. I always thought next to tony stark or the fantastic four-he seems a touch silly. Pushing Spiderman next to Iron man could make him a butt of a joke

Castor


I have to respectfully disagree with this.

I used to be a HUGE Fantastic Four Fan, and Spidey always works well with them. There is a long history here dating back to Amazing Spider-man #1. It's literally the second Spider-Man story. The Fantastic Four, if told right, is a story about Family and Adventuring. Peter's story, among other things, is also a story about family. You can't even begin to explain who Peter is without Aunt May and Uncle Ben.

He drops in and relates to them, and wishes he could live in their world -- but he can't -- he's got other obligations. He can visit and hang out for awhile. And in a way, it adds to the tragedy that is Peter Parker. He's smart enough to hang with Mr. Fantastic for awhile (at least catch some of what is going on). He relates well with the rest of the team. Ben Grimm gets him, they share that "life sucks" vibe. Sue has this big sister/mother thing going with him. I think she can't help it. Early on it's because of Johnny, and I think she just picks up that Spidey NEEDS someone, no one in his life knows who he is, and he's all alone trying to cope. And ultimately, despite the pranks, he's a good influence on Johnny. She sees all that without being told. Sue is like that.

And the Spider-man/Human Torch friendly rivalry was always very fun.

This makes him fit as an awkward nephew/uncle or something, but he's not silly or a joke. If he was, it wouldn't be tragic that he can't stay there.

The Avengers line up includes Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Captain America. Yes those three are plugged into the spy world to some extent too, and that makes them fit into the MCU at the moment. But during the fights, Spider-Man will fit right in, and even work to add the spots of levity that made The Avengers movie work. I'm not sure Avengers works without Hulk side punching Thor, "Puny God", the $10 bet between Rodgers/Fury, Widow out-conning Loki, etc. In other words that humor is what makes thing tick.

Spider-man will give them opportunity to add more of those comic beats, while also giving them a character that looks pretty awesome on screen. The Spider-Man movies don't fail because of visual effects they generally fail due to focus of the story. I don't think he'll detract from the story, and he can add to the glitz.

He's showing up first in Captain America Civil War. That story needs a few heroes. And also need some street level heroes. (And Spidey was uncharacteristically on the wrong side during that story, and it was because of Tony Stark. ) But nothing really upsets me more than doing shock things to make a story and then planing to wipe them out later (Spider-Man revealing his identity.) Yes, I'm not a big fan of Civil War. I'll charitably say that it's topic was on point for the time, and it was an ambitious story, but there were too many times that plot points were made by fiat, "It happened this way because we said it happened this way", when how/what happened doesn't make any sense. And then they hang the rest of the story on those ideas. Maybe it'll play better in Captain America: Civil War.

Oddly this is also a story where Spidey's trademark humor is not on show, and won't help the movie. It won't do people well to see "the new Spidey" acting all angsty and mopey and not at all fun while in costume. Peter is emo, Spidey is fun. But not in Civil War. I'm skeptical of Civil War, but I have to admit it's because I have so many problems with the source material. The movie could very well address all those, it'll have to change a lot, as the original story is pretty tied to the MU of the time.

So, for a different reason I think it'll be a bad idea for Civil War, but think he'd work well in the Avengers. And yes next to Tony Stark.


Civil War i think is a very tricky plotline in general to addopt, as the central feature of it "Secret identities" has never been a part at all of any of the existing MCU stuff(realize Daredevil is adding it but ahh). Without its basically Superheros versus the goverment...which is kind of the plotlines of Both Winter Solder, Iron Man 2, and arguabbly Thor 2(and was a strong theme of the first thor).

I do think Avengers wass more or less a good movie(actually i think it had one of the last great acts of any superhero movie and the best ever battle scene)....but i think the long scenes of them arguing and fighting and standing around the flying helicopter got montious-there was some intresting scenes, but the concept of "Your favorite characters together..." can be ehhhh. Spiderman in particular doesn't gain much

the reason i would I would argue is the secret of the MCU movies is that there mostly comedies. I would call the Iron man movies in particular Comedies first and action movies down the list- and a lot of that is of the spiderman variety. Tony Sark in the comics traditionally was never that funny a guy-yeah bits and there but mostly it was a pretty serious book particurally in the original Stan Lees Ann Rand days. Robert Downey Jr owes as much to Spiderman as tony stark-he quips he puts down people around him from his villians to his friends-hes less willing to make himself the butt of the joke like parker is..but still. i think if you put him in a room with peter parker in a suit he would make the joke not Spiderman-or it would turn into a jokeoff, which isn't i think compelling.


I do agree that Marvel has been doing really well with using their lesser known characters to good effect. They don't really NEED Spider-Man. And it's upsetting that this pushed back Black Panther and Captain Marvel.

And to a certain extent I think the lesser known characters .... allow a bit of Freedom. You can play with them a bit more, and then have a better chance to make things work. The big names, well, too many cooks come into the kitchen. And Ant-Man is making me wonder if this is wearing off for marvel. I can't wait to see Ant-Man to see if it's any good.


yeah Captian Marvel-its a big shock that this group wants to see her in a movie-but Black Panther is kind of a neat character when done well-and i could see a movie version of him being a lot of fun.

I do think that neither of the two movies they released last years where actually all that good(Winter Solder felt as i think you put it TOT a bit perfect, and Gaurdians suffered from a borring villian and a lot of dead time for a fast paced comedy) but i admire they try to make a silly spce opera and a spy movie. Spiderman-particuarly a third reboot in 12 years seems tired.

But will see. I am glad to report that according to Sony they are still going with there female spiderman character movie which if nothing else could be kind of neat-and well hopefully a little diffrent.

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12 Feb 2015 00:34 #40374 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Spider-man in the MCU

castor wrote:
the reason i would I would argue is the secret of the MCU movies is that there mostly comedies. I would call the Iron man movies in particular Comedies first and action movies down the list- and a lot of that is of the spiderman variety. Tony Sark in the comics traditionally was never that funny a guy-yeah bits and there but mostly it was a pretty serious book particurally in the original Stan Lees Ann Rand days. Robert Downey Jr owes as much to Spiderman as tony stark-he quips he puts down people around him from his villians to his friends-hes less willing to make himself the butt of the joke like parker is..but still. i think if you put him in a room with peter parker in a suit he would make the joke not Spiderman-or it would turn into a jokeoff, which isn't i think compelling.


I also think the MCU movies are mostly comedies, ESP Iron Man and the Avengers (to a lesser extent). RDJ really altered Tony Stark for the movies. I remember reading that Jeff Bridges was taken aback by how much Favreau and RDJ were ad libbing on the set, making things up as they went along. Which was surprising to me as I'd think Bridges would have been an actor that would want to work that way too. So yes, if you are going to put someone in a scene with RDJ as Tony Stark, they're going to have to be able to hang with him. In that vein, Gwyneth Paltrow was a good call as Pepper.

RDJ really made Iron Man by adding his Charisma and humor to Tony. In the comics Tony doesn't have that -- even when writers TRY they really can't bottle that easily, esp when the core is that Tony Stark is an selfish Asshole. He got a bit better after he became Iron Man, but it was like 100% to 75%, and it's REALLY apparent in Civil War. If that storyline did anything it was burn away any residual liking I had for Reed Richards and Tony Stark, and I honestly don't know why any of the Avengers (no matter which side they were on in Civil War) trust either of them, doubly so for Tony, who was especially two faced. (I also think it's hubris on Tony's part to think that he is even in the same class as Reed or Hank Pym. And I find putting Bruce Banner up there some retroactive rewriting` that is unnecessary.)

So I'm interested to see how they re-write Civil War, and how RDJ can make me still like Tony after he gets done with it. It's a tall order.

You'd need to cast the right person as Spider-Man -- all for a movie that the actor probably won't get much non-mask time, meaning it's extra hard for an actor. I'm not sure anyone can wear a full face mask and hold up against RDJ. So I guess I agree with you after all,...an actor just isn't going to make that scene work, so the answer is just to not put Tony Stark and Spider-Man in the same scene, instead it's either Tony Stark and Peter Parker or Iron Man and Spider-Man (RDJ is a bit different when he's playing Stark in the armor). Though it's still hard, as Iron Man they still show full face shots of RDJ, Spider-Man doesn't get that.

And once Peter takes his mask off, I see it being normal that Tony Stark would fluster him, and they show this in Civil War (it was one of the things I bought). His idol worship of Tony is one of the only things that makes him being on the Pro Registration side even remotely possible. I mean it's a repudiation of he entire life up to that point. Personally I don't think Peter is that malleable ... so ultimately it just made me more angry at Civil War.

And it leads the the conceit that I HATE in the Spider-Man movies. He keeps taking his damn mask off. It's so the actor can be seen and actually act...but several scenes it's actually stupid for Spider-man to do it....

castor wrote:
yeah Captian Marvel-its a big shock that this group wants to see her in a movie-but Black Panther is kind of a neat character when done well-and i could see a movie version of him being a lot of fun.

I do think that neither of the two movies they released last years where actually all that good(Winter Solder felt as i think you put it TOT a bit perfect, and Gaurdians suffered from a borring villian and a lot of dead time for a fast paced comedy) but i admire they try to make a silly spce opera and a spy movie. Spiderman-particuarly a third reboot in 12 years seems tired.

But will see. I am glad to report that according to Sony they are still going with there female spiderman character movie which if nothing else could be kind of neat-and well hopefully a little diffrent.


Whew. It'll be good to get another female-led movie. (I know, shocker right?) I hope they take input from Marvel, and that input is "hire good people to write, direct, and star in the movie". I hope that it's either Black Cat or Spider-woman (Drew). Though in the end I'd rather see Drew in the Hydra movies/shows. But I guess this agreement would allow that.

Also, I'm hearing that this agreement was for $0. Which is a bit surprising. I guess I see it being valuable for both sides, so $0 is "we both win this way". (They should have done this long ago.)

And yes, I'm looking forward to Black Panther. He's a character that has gotten more interesting over the years, hopefully his movie is awesome and we'll get more of them. (And doubly so for Captain Marvel.)

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12 Feb 2015 01:06 - 12 Feb 2015 01:13 #40376 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Spider-man in the MCU

TwiceOnThursdays wrote: [

And it leads the the conceit that I HATE in the Spider-Man movies. He keeps taking his damn mask off. It's so the actor can be seen and actually act...but several scenes it's actually stupid for Spider-man to do it....

Well going back to something Guy Williams said about Zorro in the 50s "No actor can really act very well in a mask". He didn't really try to be a good zorro. but he did So he dedicated himself to being the best Don Diego he could be.

Its something that Jon Faverau put it when discussing Iron Man when he was creating that silly effect when you see RDJ effect has data flying across his face "you need to see the actors face, thats why you need to do it".-its the cornerstone of that movie and really all of the MCU-they actually spend very very little time in costume. You never see all that much of Iron Man or Captian America or the Hulk. They just wear normal clothing.

It something i think the Amazing Spiderman movies try--but it has the problem that the second one in particular seems two completly diffrent movies-its a kind of charming peter parker Gwen Stacy Love story, mixed in with a kind of snippets of a spiderman movies. In none of the spiderman movies do the actors playing him spend all that much time in the costume-so the scenes when they do take off the mask give at least some connection. Really the ASM movies all feel like a kind of copy of MCU.

So i just don't see how this improves things. They try but well.....


Whew. It'll be good to get another female-led movie. (I know, shocker right?) I hope they take input from Marvel, and that input is "hire good people to write, direct, and star in the movie". I hope that it's either Black Cat or Spider-woman (Drew). Though in the end I'd rather see Drew in the Hydra movies/shows. But I guess this agreement would allow that.


Well i am going to say a controversial thing in this forrum:

I Don't particularly want to see either A Black Cat or Spider-woman(drew) movie.

Spiderwoman always felt like an intresting idea for a character, who is saddled with an origin story that makes her the rainbow character of the marvel universe-she has ties to hydra, the high evolutionary, spiderman, etc. I think somewhere the skrulls where involved to. Shes an intresting idea for a chacter(someone who wants to be normal but never really had the chance), it just always feels like she is Marvel Wangst the character-always a chip on her shoulder never can get to happy. . world where you could simplifiy her origin that could be intresting...but ehhhh... I

Black Cat i think is to often a copy of Catwoman to be intrestingi like the playfulness of her-but i would rather see her in a spiderman movie then have one of her own. Shes a character bit to tied to her love story to carry her own movie.

Which is not to say i wouldn't like to see an Aracne, or SpiderGwen or even something like Spidergirl made into a movie....but yeah.

Before you ban me from the forrums, i am just saying theres like 200 superheroines in comics. Make there movies first.:)

Castor
Last edit: 12 Feb 2015 01:13 by castor.

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