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Supergirl transgender move?

15 Jun 2018 12:00 #59852 by brantley
Supergirl transgender move? was created by brantley
tvline.com/2018/06/14/supergirl-season-4...-character-spoilers/

Actually, it's just one brief item in a long list, but I suppose it will get a lot of buzz.

--Brantley

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15 Jun 2018 17:10 #59853 by shadar
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brantley wrote: tvline.com/2018/06/14/supergirl-season-4...-character-spoilers/

Actually, it's just one brief item in a long list, but I suppose it will get a lot of buzz.

--Brantley


Melissa has been quoted as saying this will be the first transgender superhero. About time the Trans community got a hero of their own.

Seems like the show continues in its determination to punch all the holes in their ticket, but if that's what it takes to gain and keep an audience, it's fine with me. It's not subtle, but then, neither is Supergirl. 

Shadar

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15 Jun 2018 18:26 #59854 by kikass2014
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Yeah I'm pretty sure I've read their looking for an actor to play a transgender in another topic here.

I hear producers are engaged in a worldwide casting search for an actress to play the new transgender character that’s being added to the show next season.


Just save yourselves the trouble and cast Candis Cayne.  At least she actually IS a transgender actress.  Why get someone to ACT the part, when there is an ACTRESS WHO IS the part lol :D

Peace.

/K

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15 Jun 2018 18:48 #59855 by fats
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kikass2014 wrote: Yeah I'm pretty sure I've read their looking for an actor to play a transgender in another topic here.

I hear producers are engaged in a worldwide casting search for an actress to play the new transgender character that’s being added to the show next season.


Just save yourselves the trouble and cast Candis Cayne.  At least she actually IS a transgender actress.  Why get someone to ACT the part, when there is an ACTRESS WHO IS the part lol :D

Peace.

/K


too old, they are looking for a younger actress.

Fats
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15 Jun 2018 20:47 #59856 by brantley
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Whoever plays her/him, I hope she/he'll be an interesting character. "Diversity" is often seen in terms of mere body count,

--Brantley
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15 Jun 2018 22:23 #59858 by kikass2014
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too old, they are looking for a younger actress.

Fats


True.  Good point Fats.

Peace.

/K

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15 Jun 2018 22:25 #59859 by Monty
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I'm sure I saw a clip on yt of Melissa and Lena kissing in flight? Maybe it was never broadcast.

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16 Jun 2018 00:41 #59864 by shadar
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Monty wrote: I'm sure I saw a clip on yt of Melissa and Lena kissing in flight? Maybe it was never broadcast.


Kara has made it clear enough in her facial and body language that she's bi, even if the show hasn't shown it. It also fits her history. Kryptonians supposedly married the person they love without regard for labels.  Their procreation doesn't require male/female intercourse. 

And let's face it, Supergirl doesn't date wimps. She's been linked romantically a number of times since Season 1, but Mon El and Lena have the most impact, and both are archetypes for powerful people. One physical, one intellectual. They are both extremely exceptional. Which is the only kind of people Supergirl would respect and bond herself to. She understands power at a very instinctual level and it going to want someone who challenges her.

Shadar
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16 Jun 2018 03:32 #59866 by brantley
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Does transgender here mean just bisexual, or does it mean people with anomalous bodies, or who think of themselves as the opposite of the gender that they were born with?

--Brantley

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16 Jun 2018 06:20 #59873 by shadar
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brantley wrote: Does transgender here mean just bisexual, or does it mean people with anomalous bodies, or who think of themselves as the opposite of the gender that they were born with?

--Brantley


Transgender is always a matter of changing one's identity from one gender to another. For most people, that involves physical changes and not just mental changes. Sometimes those changes can be very convincing. 

When I was spending (too much) time in Thailand in the 90's,  there were a surprising number of transgendered women around. The rule of thumb was that if a woman looked way too good to be true, then it was probably a transgendered guy. That convincing. 

But then, a lot of young Thai men were rather effeminate looking  (to Western eyes) to start with. 

Shadar

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16 Jun 2018 15:29 #59884 by lfan
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brantley wrote: Does transgender here mean just bisexual, or does it mean people with anomalous bodies, or who think of themselves as the opposite of the gender that they were born with?

--Brantley


Transgender and biisexual are completely different.  Transgender is based on gender identity, basically what sex you identify as.   Bisexuality/Being gay is about sexual preference, what sex you are attracted to.

though they are often lumped into the same "queer" spectrum (e.g. LGBTQ), they are pretty much mutually exclusive.

elf
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16 Jun 2018 17:57 #59887 by shadar
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This is one of the areas where this show has taken a leadership position. 

It started off as a Cis normal kind of show, not unlike the comics. The usual play on her secret/split identity. 

Then we got an openly gay relationship with Alex and Maggie. 

We've recently seen suggestions that Kara might be bisexual, but that's not been fully developed. 

Soon we'll get a transgender superhero to explore. 

This is one area where a show like this can add value, allowing viewers to experience alternate sexualities, if done well enough. The Maggie/Alex relationship was done fairly well, IMHO.

And I say alternate only because I grew up in the 50's and 60's, when queerness wasn't open or celebrated. The word 'queer' alone has been rehabilitated from an epithet to a proud label. The show reflects the changes, which I consider progress, in how society accepts different people with different identities, albeit within a comic book universe. 

I mean, Kara's split personality/behavior, sometimes pretending to be human when she's not, is pretty 'alternate' to start with. How many people do you know who live two different lives as two different identities? Other than a full-blown schizophrenic.  Easy to throw bisexuality into that. Kara is bi, Supergirl is not. Or maybe they both are.

Personally, I think a bisexual Kara Zor El is pretty hot. And it conforms to Kryptonian norms. 

Shadar

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16 Jun 2018 20:20 - 16 Jun 2018 20:21 #59888 by kikass2014
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We've recently seen suggestions that Kara might be bisexual, but that's not been fully developed.


I don't really see this personally tbh.

I get what you are saying Shadar, but I think the problem with it is, its old, even by now.

Most people are starting to see it for what it is, just check-box filling.  And its been shown.  Hence the reported backlash in season 2.

If its done within the context of the story/world, sure, it can work a bit I guess.  But making it a focal point of your story and/or shoe-horning it in, is what grates people.

An example I would use is the Alex/Maggie relationship.  There is no logical sense making Alex a lesbian since there is NO indication she is even remotely bi in season 1, let alone full-blown lesbian.

If you want to explore queer relationships, why not just introduce a new character for Maggie to fall in love with?

At least with the transgender angle, they are introducing a new character (instead of turning one of the regulars into a transgender superhero OO)

You see my point?

Peace.

/K
Last edit: 16 Jun 2018 20:21 by kikass2014.

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16 Jun 2018 21:25 - 16 Jun 2018 21:25 #59889 by brantley
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Has anybody here read Ms. Marvel? She's being praised as a breakthrough character – a Muslim superheroine. But her Wikipedia entry doesn't say much more; just she's a convert, and that she wears baggy trousers but not a hijab.. Only, is she Sunni or Shia? Does she observe Ramadan? Has she been on a hajj? Does she pray five times a day? Does she have any take on Sharia law? 

-- Barntley
Last edit: 16 Jun 2018 21:25 by brantley.

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16 Jun 2018 21:28 #59890 by brantley
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Transgender or other minority characters need to be characters. True diversity is more than a body count.

--Brantley
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16 Jun 2018 23:36 #59892 by kikass2014
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Transgender or other minority characters need to be characters. True diversity is more than a body count.


That is exactly my point Brantley [my bold for emphasis]. 

Peace.

/K

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17 Jun 2018 03:29 #59893 by TwiceOnThursdays
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brantley wrote: Has anybody here read Ms. Marvel? She's being praised as a breakthrough character – a Muslim superheroine. But her Wikipedia entry doesn't say much more; just she's a convert, and that she wears baggy trousers but not a hijab.. Only, is she Sunni or Shia? Does she observe Ramadan? Has she been on a hajj? Does she pray five times a day? Does she have any take on Sharia law? 

-- Barntley


I think this is a weird scatter shot series of questions.  I don't have answers for them all -- but I think you're also reducing her to one attribute,"Muslim", when what makes her a good character is that she's more than a checkbox. The book focuses a lot on her teenage life, and the problems a first generation daughter of an immigrant has (I think her older brother was born in Pakistan).

SHe's not a convert, she's always been a Muslim, her parents are Muslims from Pakistan, she was born here.   G. Willow Wilson the writer of the comic is a convert, though she's not from Pakistan.

Been on a hajj?  No.  But she's a teenage high school student.  I don't know when people first go do that.  

Sunni/Shia.  I... don't know.  I think she's Sunni.  Wiikipedia says most Muslims from Pakistan are Sunni, and it seems she is, and the comic probabably has said, but I really don't care about that and probably didn't notice.  I'm not a muslim myself, so I don't know how much someone goes around going I'm a _Sunni_ Muslim.  Most Christians I know don't tell me their Baptist/Presbyterian/etc unless I ask, though they'll do/act/talk in a way that I know they're Christain.  Are Muslim Americans differnt?  SHould it be a cornerstone of her identity?

Would I sunni talk about Shia law?  Her Imam is shown as being really progressive.  There was a giant argument about it one of the reddit comic boards, but the consensu (from actual muslims) is that some Imans are cool like hers is, and some of them aren't.

Her parents and brothers are more devout that she is.  She's a mix of Western and Muslim, so she sometimes isn't the best muslim, but she also does have faith and thinks about it.  All I know is I've read more than a few muslims talking about her and most of them really like how she's portrayed.

Some of her teenage friends wear a hajib, but she doesn't.  I can't remember if she has ever ... I'm pretty sure she has,  She just doesn't in her heroic or civilian identity most of the time.

They really don't show her stopping and praying. It's not like she's never done it.  But it's not her focus.  She does go to her Iman to help figure things out.  She thinks her parents are too strict, but honors them (most of the time, she's a teenager).  There have been some great scenes with her parents (they're 3 dimensional people to, not just cardboard cutouts).

But I think I'll go back to my point.  Ms. Marvel is a great character, with a fully realized life outside of her costume.  One of the things is that she's a Muslim, but isn't hardcore about it.  Her brother is pretty serious about his religion though.
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17 Jun 2018 04:10 #59894 by brantley
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Thanks for enlightening me.

--Brantley

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22 Jun 2018 03:47 #59952 by Starforge
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brantley wrote: Transgender or other minority characters need to be characters. True diversity is more than a body count.

--Brantley


Supergirl ratings have dropped to the level of Black Lightning (1/4 what it was in it's opening on the CW.)  It's been well documented in TV that you don't recover lost viewers (rare exceptions but the general rule holds.)  At this point, they can simply hit check boxes for diversity - they aren't getting back the viewers they lost and they're only pandering to far left progressives in many cases absent story or plot points.

Adding some character development now might make the few who still look for such things happy, but let's face it - if you made it this far you aren't going to stop watching pretty much no matter how stupid it gets.  It certainly must take the pressure off the writers.

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22 Jun 2018 10:16 #59955 by brantley
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The actual ratings trend....

www.reviewgraphs.com/supergirl-review-graph.html

--brantley
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