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Season 1 x 06 Spoilers and Discussions Red Faced

14 Nov 2015 14:16 - 16 Nov 2015 16:23 #45159 by five_red
melissa-benoist.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=139

One of the go-to places for breaking Supergirl pics (in high quality too) has posted a gallery for this episode.


Personal and professional stress get the better of Kara when she goes too far during a training exercise against Red Tornado, a military cyborg commissioned by Lucy Lane’s father, General Sam Lane. Also, Cat’s tough exterior is shaken by a visit from her judgmental mother, Katherine, and Alex enlists Winn to look into her father’s mysterious death, on SUPERGIRL, Monday, Nov. 30 (8:00-9:00 PM, ET) on the CBS Television Network. Guest stars include Iddo Goldberg as Red Tornado and its creator, Dr. Morrow; Joan Juliet Buck as Katherine Grant, Cat’s mother; and Glenn Morshower as General Sam Lane, Lucy’s father.



Edit: KryptonSite has just hinted at episode 7's title, "Human for a Day": www.kryptonsite.com/supergirl-episode-7-...led-human-for-a-day/ . Won't create a thread just yet in case they are wrong, but they were right about ep2 and 3's titles a fair bit before the official announcement.

R5

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24 Nov 2015 15:48 #45348 by lfan
New promo is up:

supergirl.dcentertainmentnews.com/video.cfm?vid=1372

Judging from the promo, it looks like next week might be a pivotal moment in the series with Supergirl kicking some major ass. I am imagining that the title is a play on words to infer both the Red Tornado AND Supergirl somehow getting exposed to Red Kryptonite. Her unbridled rage in the promo above as well as her sass as Kara seem to indicate she's got a really short fuse all of a sudden.

I'm guessing by some of the promo shots and the trailer that that are starting to plant the seeds for the "Who Is Superwoman" storyline:

-- More emphasis on Lucy in the military
-- General Lane's appearance
-- Supergirl going ballistic and out-of-control so they need a counter-weapon

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25 Nov 2015 04:06 #45362 by Random321
Replied by Random321 on topic Season 1 x 06 Spoilers and Discussions Red Faced
Hmm... ...Live Wire and Red Kryptonite so quickly?! It's fun that we are getting so much candy so quickly, but I hope it's not just a sugar rush and they keep working on these story assets and characters.

I need to go back and watch some early Lois and Clark episodes if I ever have time to see if they raced at this kind of weekly pace too (taking into account the action limitations of the time).

There is another theory on why she's "human for a day" in the next episode. It's an item from the comics I semi hope stays in the comics - but we'll see how the writers handle it. They've built faith brownie points with me.

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25 Nov 2015 11:15 #45372 by brantley
I'm wondering if there'll be anything that ISN'T a re-tread of stuff from the comics...

--Brantley

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25 Nov 2015 20:01 #45392 by lfan

There is another theory on why she's "human for a day" in the next episode. It's an item from the comics I semi hope stays in the comics - but we'll see how the writers handle it. They've built faith brownie points with me.


Yeah, if you're talking about the "solar flare speculation", it's a possibility (over the Red K theory).....

While the pace of the show is rather quick, I think that's due to the fact that its on a major network where they do not have time to build an audience. Basically, it's perform out of the gate or get the hook by the 5th episode these days. That kinda of forces the writer's hand, IMO, to not leave several bullets in the chamber.

I find the notion of using too much stuff from the comic laughably ironic. One of the biggest pre-air complaints was Jimmy Olson was black cause he's red-haired and white in the comics. Similarily, people panned the WW pilot cause it deviated so much from comics mythos. Now people are complaining that it borrows TOO much from the comics!?! I don't understand why people cannot sit back and enjoy the type of show its made to be.....

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25 Nov 2015 21:19 - 25 Nov 2015 22:51 #45394 by bach2990
Sneak peak is out now on youtube (only US for now) or supergirl.tv.

1


2


3
Last edit: 25 Nov 2015 22:51 by bach2990. Reason: Link

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25 Nov 2015 22:23 #45396 by canarysong
Replied by canarysong on topic Season 1 x 06 Spoilers and Discussions Red Faced
I really like what I've seen of the show so far, in particular that it's about Supergirl!

Much as I love the classic Wonder Woman episodes, they might have been titled "The New Adventures of Diana Prince (with a little bit of Wonder Woman)". WW might only make 3 brief appearances in an entire episode.

The makers of "Supergirl" have wisely realised that viewers tune in to see Supergirl mostly, rather than her alter ego.

JOHN

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25 Nov 2015 22:42 #45397 by Random321
Replied by Random321 on topic Season 1 x 06 Spoilers and Discussions Red Faced
I think those previews confirm no Red K in this episode.

They do seem to be allowing Kara to use Cat as a foil to show/build some assertiveness. I'm wondering if we see the scene with the BMW driver in a later episode. Maybe there is Red K in that as a plot/character development tool. On the other hand maybe we are just seeing more and more "assertiveness" and part of the character development and story is finding a balance between ador(k)able and assertive natures.

Astra and her assistant - the Ship they have/had - Parasite - Red K - Green K - Winn's (?) Dad - Hank - Return of Live Wire - General Lane and Daughter - so much potential. Loving it all.

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25 Nov 2015 23:22 #45401 by mo
So much to love about the show. I'm particularly enjoying Kara becoming more confident as Supergirl, the special effects and all the threats that are being created.

Pinch me. I'm getting a Supergirl movie every week. Can't believe it. Loving it.
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01 Dec 2015 02:32 #45432 by jimbob
Yep. No Red K. Just her inner frustration getting to her more and more as the ep goes on, which is actually really interesting as I don't think Superman's ever had something like that happen.

Also she uses a car as a literal punching bag to get her frustrations out.

Next episode is a Powerless one though, because it seems if she overclocks her heat vision it burns out her powers for a little while.

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01 Dec 2015 12:12 #45435 by five_red
Up until this point there's been a reasonable degree of agreement in Supergirl post-episode comments on SWM; certainly there hasn't been much in the way of stark disagreements. Well I suspect I'm about to break the consensus. You're probably not going to like what you're about to read...

In this episode Kara finally deals with those anger management problems that we've seen brewing over the recent weeks. Y'know, all that pent up anger that has been clearly bubbling under the surface. I'm sure we all saw the warning signs in previous episodes -- I mean, it's not as if a character that had previously been the epitome of sugar 'n' spice (if slightly neurotic) suddenly, for no reason whatsoever, exhibits an entirely different personality from the opening thirty seconds of an episode.

Yeah... exactly..!!

But... before I wade into the two gaping-chasm-sized problems with this episode (and the series as a whole as it has been developing), let me take a few moments to point out the many positives, and the one negative. If one ignores the two major issues detailed below, the episode wasn't half bad. It was, like the 'previous' episode (1x04: How Does She Do It) an entertaining hour with some competent special effects and acting performances. Iddo Goldberg made Red Tornado look good when in action (sadly the costume looked as bad as the preview photos suggested when stationary), and the interchanges between Cat and her mother were a joy to watch -- genuinely laugh-out-loud moments. There was only one minor bad point: General Lane was such a blatant over-the-top hypocrite that it was hard to give the character any credibility. Chewing people out for things he clearly instructed them to do not five minutes previous crossed well over the line into making the character look like a total idiot.

Okay, so now that's said, time to address what's bugging me. The two issued below have been niggling me from 1x02 onwards, but 1x06 really turned the dial up to 11 on both of them...

The first is what might be called "Kara's issue of the week" syndrome. Each week Kara has had to face a personal issue: 1x03 was living in the shadow of her cousin, 1x04 (How Does...) was balancing her two jobs, 1x05 (Livewire) was tensions within her adopted family, 1x06 is anger management, 1x07 will be being powerless. The problem is: with the possible exception of the Superman thing, these issues suddenly materialise out of nowhere for one episode only.

Presumably in 1x08 Kara will suddenly reveal she's been thinking about starting a family... for one episode only. Then in 1x09 we'll suddenly find out that Kara suffers from bouts of loneliness and depression... for one episode only. In 1x10 we'll find out Kara has always passionately wanted to run away and join the circus... for one episode only. And so on...

Yes, in some cases issues suddenly materialising out of nowhere are explainable by the plot: the superpower loss in the upcoming episode, for example. But in other cases it seems downright odd and disjointed. This week's episode was the most extreme example, and that's why it stands out. Apparently, out of nowhere, Kara suddenly turns from adorkable and naive (episodes 1 to 5), to snarling and angry, between episodes. And then presumably she'll be back to adorkable and naive again next week. There's zero signalling of her anger management problems in any of the episodes up until this point (unless breaking a stapler counts!) -- quite the opposite.

The second problem is Cat's weekly feminist pep talk. At the SDCC round tables the writers repeatedly said that the show wasn't written as a feminist show. I was a little disappointed by this, as I didn't see any reason why a SuperGIRL show shouldn't occasionally touch upon a few feminist issues from time to time. Unfortunately the writers lied. Every week so far, Cat Grant (an otherwise highly enjoyable character) delivers a little pep talk to Kara about how to be a successful woman in the modern world. These little speeches are so predictable and lacking in subtlety that they've started to rankle. In this episode particularly I felt like I was being bashed over the head. It's getting on my nerves -- I don't disagree with the sentiment, just the heavy-handed delivery.

In conclusion: I understand the writers want to explore various issues through the 'lens' of Kara, but if they can't learn to blend them into the episodes a little better then we're in for a rocky ride. Kara can't suddenly have a big problem one week, when we've seen absolutely no foreshadowing of it in previous episodes -- that just feels bizarre. Likewise they need to find a way to cover the feminist issues better; Cat's a great character, but we can do without the preaching.

If they don't sort out these problems, I have serious worries that the show will make it to a second season. Indeed, I doubt if I'll personally make it to the end of season one.

R5

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01 Dec 2015 12:59 #45437 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Season 1 x 06 Spoilers and Discussions Red Faced
I agree completely with Red about General Lane.
This is a typical "Hollywood" cardboard cutout, what they think a General is like.
You could see the actor cringing as he delivered his lines.
I actually felt sorry for him.

I was never in the Military but I have seen a General in action at an event I was working at.
He calmly listened to both sides of a disagreement.
He asked one question.
Made a descision and that was that.
He never lost his cool and was commanded respect.
I was incredibly impressed.

The most believable High ranking officer I have seen in a Hollywood movie was the Admiral in the big budget Godzilla movie.
He gathered his advisors around a table.
Listened to what they had to say.
He made a decision and moved forward.

Other than that I liked the episode.
I liked Red Tornado as a villain and I hope to see Red Mark II in a future epiosde.

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01 Dec 2015 15:44 #45440 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Season 1 x 06 Spoilers and Discussions Red Faced
Overall I thought this episode was the best one so far this season. I felt it had some good developments in terms of story and charactors), specifically Alex and Maxwell. Their scenes were really well played out imo. In fact, probably all the characters relationships developed in some way with each other, as well as personally. And there was a nice lead-in to next weeks episode.

I'll post my thoughts on the negatives first, as there were a couple, mentioned by others that I agree with. As mentioned, the Red Tornado costume did not look that great. And like some mentioned, I too was dubious about it, even when the preview shots were released way back. The character of General Lane I also agree was very flat and stereotypical. And he made no logical sense with his actions or motivations (telling them to do one thing, then getting mad at their actions which were following his orders??) But, apart from those two points though, I found very little else wrong with the episode, and a lot right.

The "Hero's-Problem-Of-The-Week" format isn't really a problem for me. It is just they way MOST shows imo deal with their narrative structure. The "feminist" pep-talk that Cat gives every week, I just feel that that is how she is as a person. She BELIEVES what she is saying, so why wouldn't she say it to a fellow woman? Does it grate? Not on me if I'm honest, but I am sure it does on others. But that to me isn't a problem of the show. Yes it could be done in a more subtle way of course. But I don't get the impression that its "forced" as much as one might think.

Overall I felt this episode had more emotional drive and connection (no pun intended) then pretty much all of the other episodes. The scene where Kara and James are "working out" their anger was great imo. James starts of with a little release, and then Kara follows. And all of a sudden she explodes and all these inner feelings come out was great to see. Another scene where I felt, for point of a better word, "wow" was when Alex was fighting Morrow. In the heat of the fight, her anger gets the better of her and she shoots him. When I saw her reaction I felt for her. And then there was Kara taking out Red Tornado. That scene where she is blasting him with her heat vision was brilliant. Just raw, pure emotion and will. She wasn't fighting the robot, she was dealing with her own issues and overcoming them. And it was great to watch imo.

I'm sure most of that is probably obvious to most viewers to be fair. I just feel that when it works, it should be saluted.

And in this episode it worked.

Peace.

/K

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01 Dec 2015 16:59 #45442 by jimbob
I don't have a problem with her sudden rage. She's having things that clearly upset her tossed at her for the last few episodes (Cat and Henshaw and Lucy) but rolled with it and Lane was the last straw. If anything I'm surprised it took her so long to snap at Cat.

As far the "I just want a normal relationship" thing I'm not sure if she meant all that or it was a last second swap to avoid telling Jimmy she was jealous of Lucy because she has feelings for him too.

Cat's feminist speeches a grating but I'm not sure if we're supposed to take them completely seriously given that she does stuff like insist that Kara wasn't mad at her at all when it fact she kind of was.

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01 Dec 2015 17:07 #45443 by five_red

The "Hero's-Problem-Of-The-Week" format isn't really a problem for me. It is just they way MOST shows imo deal with their narrative structure.


Absolutely. The problem I have with it is that it's just "the week".

If you look at, say, Doctor Who (similar family audience, similar timeslot) they also do some episodes which focus on a major issue for a regular character... but the difference is they will foreshadow it for a couple of weeks before hand.

This episode made it look like Kara has some kind of bipolar disorder, because it starts with her almost breaking someone's arm in rage, yet there's no indication that she has anger problems in any of the previous episodes. And we'll likely not see that anger ever again. Likewise she appears to have absolutely no problem juggling Supergirl and Kara roles... until they want to do an episode about balancing a career with other commitments, then suddenly Kara totally falls apart and starts forgetting to do all kinds of basic stuff... but 7 days later she's back to her super-efficient super-memory self.

A friend of mine often refers to such storytelling as like "the water skis in Knight Rider". Apparently there was an episode of Knight Rider where they fitted the car (KITT) with water skis so it could drive on water. Then, later that episode, the car just so happens to need to drive on water for some reason. The water skis are never ever seen again in the series after that episode. (I've no idea whether there really was such an episode, but you get the point.)

Btw, on an unrelated personal note: last week you'll recall I was being tweeted by David Harewood; this week I discover that Melissa Benoist has been signing my pictures. Seems some fans have been printing out my MB photo manips and getting Melissa to sign them at events. I only found this out because Albais (a member here) pointed out to me that someone was eBay'ing one of the signed pics.

R5


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01 Dec 2015 19:57 #45446 by Random321
Replied by Random321 on topic Season 1 x 06 Spoilers and Discussions Red Faced
Haha. I’ve been enjoying the pictures five_red. I hope you can take the printing of your images as a compliment (certainly the re-tweet) and not a slight that you’re not getting royalties.

Thoughts on this week’s episode:

They did five_red’s favorite – intro the episode with an action item again.  <cough>

I 100% agree about the freak of the week and personal drama item of the week writing we’ve been seeing. My hope is that the back seven will give us a bit more cross episode writing and as Lfan keeps saying this was all needed to get the show going and to provide satisfying resolutions each week. Certainly the bad buy arch with longer term development is there (Winn daddy issues, hank, Lucy, Alex and her Dad, Lord). The Cat and Kara relationship building has also crossed episodes – I’ll be interested to see if they turn the two against each other and come to a resolve as well.

The flying scenes finally look good! I kept my past criticism to myself: a little too much shaky cam and forced perspective in the early episodes.

I agree with some comments about the military General Trope. A little tired – but this is a comic show and everyone (except those of us who know) like a good US Military bad guy. I’ve done it too in PSW.

It’s the little things: “Classified” on the RT box. “Battle with a Roomba.” Cat drunk and using sunglasses the next day with her mom when hungover and needing Advil. Car punching bag? It makes me smile.

I liked the Alex Kara Simultaneous Fight. Fun editing. RT tuned out better than I expected. Maybe there is more to him in the comics than one dimensional – I’m not sure – it did leave me wanting to know more about him/it. The super breath fans should have liked the arm freeze effect.

FX Beef: When she reversed the tornado – I didn’t get the feel she was flying all that fast. No biggie.

The dramatic music on the heat vision blast was a nice effort as well. I hope the sound people didn’t feel rejected again. Glad it was a big drain and intense heat vision and not “solar burst” style. Smart SG would run for a solar recharge and to her friends the moment she got cut – but – we’ll see. We’ll see if they make this an “all in your head” play – which will also no doubt drive five_red nuts. 

What put me off: Supergirl just killed a sentient being? Alex shot and killed the doctor? Now in both cases there was no body – so maybe no kill. We’ll see. The cursing in the road rage stuff also caught me off guard. I know Shadar has hoped for this to be on HBO or whatever for a more adult theme. I’m not looking for that in this case personally.

The feminist/political angle that has been putting some people off isn’t bothering me at the moment. We’ll see where it all goes. No, blacks and women can’t be angry in the office. It’s true and it’s worth talking about. What’s missing is neither can white men in an office environment (I should know). The idea among some that it’s an exclusive or double standard thing I don’t buy. As long as it’s about Kara, Cat, James – and their personal feelings – fine. If they ever try to say Winn is a white privilege male – that’s when I throw my flag.
Interesting setup for Lucy Lane to get pissed and want to hate SG and run back to her dad.

It’s disappointing to me that Winn is terrible at game night and there isn’t better Winn/Kara chemistry. Oh well. #Team Winn FTW.

I went in with low expectations expecting a bust episode with a lame RT. I was pleasantly surprised. Maybe not the best episode to date but I enjoyed it.

Jeremiah Danvers LIVES!

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01 Dec 2015 20:08 #45447 by jdrock24
I agree with five-red that Kara's anger issues seem to come out of nowhere in this episode. However, on the plus side, it did give us the great scene of Kara using a car for a punching bag. ;)

Also, Cat's feminist pep talks are getting annoying. I mean, when she told that story about Perry White throwing a chair through a window and how a man can get away with that but a woman can't, I almost literally rolled my eyes. Maybe some crotchety old male boss in the last century could get away with that but I wouldn't think that would fly nowadays. If one of my bosses, male or female, threw a chair through a window I would think that person a lunatic and in need of anger management counseling.

Other negatives were Red Tornado's costume (I'm sorry, it was awful) and General Lane, as others have mentioned.

Positives: The special FX were good as always. The banter between Cat and her mother were enjoyable (Line of the night: Kara: Do you want me to order that car for your mom?" Cat: No. She can just take her broom.). I also think that the Alex/Maxwell relationship could lead to some interesting developments down the line.
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01 Dec 2015 23:16 #45453 by shadar
Despite sharing the concerns about the issue of the week (not to mention the bad guy of the week), and the lack of any kind of foreshadowing and obvious overriding plot line, I liked this episode. My favorite so far.

Sure, the show has lots of problems, but it's CBS after all. All their shows have exaggerated characters (think General Lane in this case), but this show tried to show how people have to overcome underlying anger issues.

And as far as the throwing the chair through a window, given Cat's age, I could easily see this happening when she was a young reporter.

True story... back around 1990 I was a senior Reliability manager for a tech company. My job was to make sure our products were reliable enough to be sold. I was in a meeting with a very senior Engineering manager who was responsible for getting our latest product to market. He'd promised senior management that it was ready.

I was sitting across the table, my guys on one side and his guys on the other. I told him I wasn't going to sign off on his product, even though it meant we were going to miss our sales forecast for next quarter. This Engineering director got so mad at me that he threw his Plot mechanical pencil at me and it stuck into the wall a few inches beside my head. His eyes got big as he realized what he'd done. The room was deathly quiet as I pulled the pencil from the wall, walked around the table and handed it to him, and told him we would meet again once he'd fixed the problems and my guys had retested the product. Then I walked out the door.

At that point, I owned him. I could have gone to HR and caused him problems, but it was far more fun (and effective) to own him. And this was in a company where the CEO famously threw chairs across conference rooms when he was mad. He also fired people during conference calls. The Tech industry was like that in the early late 80's/early 90's.

I remember another time when we were having Saturday meetings because things were dire, and all of senior management was required to attend. Lots of yelling and screaming and threats. At the end of the meeting, the VP of HR, who was a very attractive woman, asked if she needed to attend the Sunday meeting, given it was all technical stuff. The CEO said in front of the entire group, all of whom were men except for her: "Sure, honey, as long as you wear that short dress again." She showed up for the Sunday meeting wearing a pantsuit. She just sat there and stared at him for eight hours. Made her point that she was tough enough to be on the team.

So Perry White throwing a chair through a window... sounded kind of normal to me for the time.

Shadar



Haha. I’ve been enjoying the pictures five_red. I hope you can take the printing of your images as a compliment (certainly the re-tweet) and not a slight that you’re not getting royalties.

Thoughts on this week’s episode:

They did five_red’s favorite – intro the episode with an action item again.  <cough>

I 100% agree about the freak of the week and personal drama item of the week writing we’ve been seeing. My hope is that the back seven will give us a bit more cross episode writing and as Lfan keeps saying this was all needed to get the show going and to provide satisfying resolutions each week. Certainly the bad buy arch with longer term development is there (Winn daddy issues, hank, Lucy, Alex and her Dad, Lord). The Cat and Kara relationship building has also crossed episodes – I’ll be interested to see if they turn the two against each other and come to a resolve as well.

The flying scenes finally look good! I kept my past criticism to myself: a little too much shaky cam and forced perspective in the early episodes.

I agree with some comments about the military General Trope. A little tired – but this is a comic show and everyone (except those of us who know) like a good US Military bad guy. I’ve done it too in PSW.

It’s the little things: “Classified” on the RT box. “Battle with a Roomba.” Cat drunk and using sunglasses the next day with her mom when hungover and needing Advil. Car punching bag? It makes me smile.

I liked the Alex Kara Simultaneous Fight. Fun editing. RT tuned out better than I expected. Maybe there is more to him in the comics than one dimensional – I’m not sure – it did leave me wanting to know more about him/it. The super breath fans should have liked the arm freeze effect.

FX Beef: When she reversed the tornado – I didn’t get the feel she was flying all that fast. No biggie.

The dramatic music on the heat vision blast was a nice effort as well. I hope the sound people didn’t feel rejected again. Glad it was a big drain and intense heat vision and not “solar burst” style. Smart SG would run for a solar recharge and to her friends the moment she got cut – but – we’ll see. We’ll see if they make this an “all in your head” play – which will also no doubt drive five_red nuts. 

What put me off: Supergirl just killed a sentient being? Alex shot and killed the doctor? Now in both cases there was no body – so maybe no kill. We’ll see. The cursing in the road rage stuff also caught me off guard. I know Shadar has hoped for this to be on HBO or whatever for a more adult theme. I’m not looking for that in this case personally.

The feminist/political angle that has been putting some people off isn’t bothering me at the moment. We’ll see where it all goes. No, blacks and women can’t be angry in the office. It’s true and it’s worth talking about. What’s missing is neither can white men in an office environment (I should know). The idea among some that it’s an exclusive or double standard thing I don’t buy. As long as it’s about Kara, Cat, James – and their personal feelings – fine. If they ever try to say Winn is a white privilege male – that’s when I throw my flag.
Interesting setup for Lucy Lane to get pissed and want to hate SG and run back to her dad.

It’s disappointing to me that Winn is terrible at game night and there isn’t better Winn/Kara chemistry. Oh well. #Team Winn FTW.

I went in with low expectations expecting a bust episode with a lame RT. I was pleasantly surprised. Maybe not the best episode to date but I enjoyed it.

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02 Dec 2015 01:04 #45456 by brantley
You could have worked those real-life incidents into your own fiction. Or maybe you have.

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02 Dec 2015 18:31 #45469 by YAGS
Agree with five red about the personality disorders of the week being a bit silly. Also agree with Shadar about white male privilege - it does exist, especially in the business world 20+ years ago.

And I agree with being slightly annoyed by Cat's weekly feminist pep talks. While most of what she says is accurate and worth saying, the fact that it's a weekly speech is becoming redundant and boring. They need to show, don't tell. Which they actually did effectively in the Livewire episode, when Cat visited the comatose Leslie in the hospital. It really showed that Cat was intentionally mentoring her female employees, and cared about them more than she would admit.

I will say that the action on this show is getting better. You might remember that my big complaint about the early episodes, especially the Supergirl vs Astra fight in ep 2, was that the action was a jumbled mess. Too many fast cuts, poorly timed close-ups, etc. It was hard to follow what was actually happening. They've gotten better about that. Even with RT's tornado effects, things weren't too blurry to follow, though the tornadoes were kinda cheesy looking, and a little too obviously CG, though that's forgivable.

But other than the anger management issues coming out of nowhere, my biggest complaint was what happened to Red Tornado. So he becomes sentient at the end? What exactly does that mean? What personality did he have? We'll never know, because it lasted all of 3 seconds before Kara decimated him, eliminating room for a sequel to the episode. I was half expecting Morrow's consciousness to end up in the robot body, given that he was mentally linked to RT when he died.

Given that Red Tornado is usually a good guy in the comics, and used to be in the Justice League, I was really hoping they'd treat him as more than just a villain of the week. It would have been cool for the robot to get its own personality and realize it didn't want to fight Supergirl any more. They could have kept it around and have it make guest appearances later.

Another dumb point that nobody's mentioned yet: How did Maxwell Lord know from looking at RT's arm that it was a drone controlled from the outside, not containing its own internal processor? That makes no sense.

And General Lane was a dumb stereotype. When Red Tornado flew off, the first thing everyone should have been doing is looking at its creator for help in finding him, yet the general fires him instead. I was half expecting Henshaw to approach Morrow for help behind the general's back, which would have been the smart thing to do.

Overall, not a great episode, but I do think the last couple of episodes have been slowly getting better overall. I'm hoping this show will be a lot better once it gets warmed up.

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03 Dec 2015 04:36 #45474 by Random321
Replied by Random321 on topic Season 1 x 06 Spoilers and Discussions Red Faced

We'll never know, because it lasted all of 3 seconds before Kara decimated him, eliminating room for a sequel to the episode. I was half expecting Morrow's consciousness to end up in the robot body, given that he was mentally linked to RT when he died.

Given that Red Tornado is usually a good guy in the comics, and used to be in the Justice League, I was really hoping they'd treat him as more than just a villain of the week. It would have been cool for the robot to get its own personality and realize it didn't want to fight Supergirl any more. They could have kept it around and have it make guest appearances later.

Another dumb point that nobody's mentioned yet: How did Maxwell Lord know from looking at RT's arm that it was a drone controlled from the outside, not containing its own internal processor? That makes no sense.


Regarding the quick death of RT: Like I said - no body no death. I bet his head is recovered and he'll be back. As a hero, maybe not yet...

On the Maxwell Lord RT Arm thing: I thought it was poorly explained too. However, didn't Maxwell say he found an advanced GPS system in the RT arm or something in the arm indicating RT was remotely managed? Now, my car has GPS, and that doesn't mean it is or is not remotely managed, so maybe they should have said something about a data link/transmitter system.

My question: Where did the gun that SG shot RT with? Did I miss a setup in the episode - or did it just appear?

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03 Dec 2015 05:06 #45475 by YAGS
One other thing that bugged me: Red Tornado grew a new arm, and nobody mentioned it. After Supergirl froze off his original arm, they still had it as evidence after he flew off. When RT attacked General Lane and his daughter, he had a replacement arm. This makes perfect sense in the context of him having been repaired by his maker, but the fact that none of the characters mentioned it, or thought it was a clue, is kinda stupid. THAT should have been the clue to make them realize his maker was repairing him, not a hint from Maxwell Lord that didn't make any sense.
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03 Dec 2015 06:55 #45476 by shadar
I found the "absolute zero freeze breath" thing to be idiotic, even for a superhuman show.. Cooling something I get, but absolute zero? Just by exhaling ordinary air? Do the writers understand what absolute zero means?

Strength, flight, invulnerability, x-ray vision, super-hearing, heat vision... all OK in the context of the show given there are alien tweaks and DNA behind all that. But blowing air is just physics of the ordinary kind. And where does all that air come from? Her liver?

Even comic book shows have to have some limits. Or we should just call it magic (e.g. anything you can imagine) and be done with it. Insulting.

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03 Dec 2015 08:10 - 03 Dec 2015 08:11 #45477 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Season 1 x 06 Spoilers and Discussions Red Faced

I found the "absolute zero freeze breath" thing to be idiotic, even for a superhuman show.. Cooling something I get, but absolute zero? Just by exhaling ordinary air? Do the writers understand what absolute zero means?

Strength, flight, invulnerability, x-ray vision, super-hearing, heat vision... all OK in the context of the show given there are alien tweaks and DNA behind all that. But blowing air is just physics of the ordinary kind. And where does all that air come from? Her liver?

Even comic book shows have to have some limits. Or we should just call it magic (e.g. anything you can imagine) and be done with it. Insulting.


Rolls Dice. Fails ST vs Pedantic Physics lecture.

Moving air (no matter the speed) can not cool something below the ambient temp. It can remove excess heat, and move something towards the ambient temperature faster.

If the temperature is zero degrees, and the wind chill is -30, an exposed steel beam in the wind will be ... zero degrees. It will NEVER be -30. However if you had two beams, and they were 50 degrees and you set them out, one blocked from the wind, and the other exposed, the exposed one would drop to zero faster.

There NO SPEED of wind that will take a glass of water sitting at room temperture and freeze it (exception: room is freezing, and water was above freezing when you put it in the room, but it would have frozen w/o any wind, just done so slower). You could theoretically set up some vortex to reduce/increase the pressure and that can be used to induce temperature change, but that's not from simply blowing wind really fast. Or I guess if air moved fast enough it could start to heat things up due to friction (this is probably really damn fast, like a hurricane is a slowpoke fast, and i'm too lazy to google around to figure it out).

I've always taken "freeze breath" to be the stupidest power of Superman's primary powers (I'm ignoring Super Hypnotism, Ventriloquism ). Forget trying to figure out how eyes can project energy, which is pretty non-sensical, freeze breath is just idiotic. Is there some special freezing organ in the Kryptonian Lungs?

In the Ultima stories I explained away heat vision and freeze breath as both being Pyro/Cryokinesis -- or rather telekinetically speeding up/slowing down molecules. That Ultimo presented them as "heat vision" and "Freeze breath" was a limitation because he misunderstood his powers. It followed that flight was telekinetic in nature too, as was some of the invulnerability and strength. Honestly Kryptonians have to be some giant genetic engineering feat as nothing else explains the incredible series of unrelated (and non-useful on Krypton) mutations that would be needed for their powers. There is a zero percent chance that Kryptonian powers were developed via natural selection. I don't know if the Superman comics have directly addressed this -- though there have been some allusions to genetic engineering. Reducing their power set down to mostly applications of Telekinesis means it's a bit less of a leap (but still a pretty big one). They might even use it a bit on Krypton (helping explain how human like beings on a high gravity world aren't short and stocky).

Absolute Zero just makes it worse. It didn't make sense before that, and there wasn't any reason to use Absolute Zero.

What the heck is Red Tornado made out of that Supergirl can't just rip off his arm anyway? Or her heat vision couldn't just melt .. that's some pretty advanced materials there. OTH he can make Tornados and that doesn't make sense (that's a "his powers are a given, just go with it.")

Is it ironic that Red Tornado, the master of wind, got his arm frozen and chopped off by super-wind?

I'd much rather have had Supergirl use her heat vision to super-heat Red Tornado, and then hit him with Super Breath, cooling him down so rapidly he breaks apart. He's also probably made of different materials and they would expand and contract at different rates, helping with the destruction.
Last edit: 03 Dec 2015 08:11 by TwiceOnThursdays. Reason: fixing bolding formatting that I messed up.

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03 Dec 2015 11:57 #45480 by five_red
In the spirit of true fandom pedantry, let me over-analyse the whole situation, reach for a handful of pseudo-science, and throw in a massive dose of special pleading for good measure...

There is a plausible explanation for all of Kara's superpowers, except the freezy-breath thing. It has been hinted at in the comicbooks since the 1980s. Here's how the hypothesis works: let's imagine that Kryptonians only really have one superpower: a solar powered energy field around their body that they have very precise mental control over. Additionally, let's assume that said aura has some gravity controlling properties, and that Kryptonians can voluntarily extend this aura around any object they are touching. Now let's consider each superpower in turn:
  • Flying: Flight is just using the field's gravity defying properties on themselves, and anything they touch.
  • Invulnerability:Kryptonian skin isn't really rock-solid, it's the aura deflecting the bullets. This also explains why a Kryptonian's skin can still be soft to the touch, like humans, when necessary.
  • Strength (lifting): Like flight, this isn't about muscle strength, but rather the aura's gravity controlling properties. This explains how Kara was able to manoeuvre the plane in 1x01 and hold up the building in 1x04.
  • Strength (punching, throwing, etc.): There's less opportunity to use the gravity control properties of the aura when Kara only briefly touches an object or let's it go, so this relies more on muscle strength and only partially on the aura. This explains why Kara can lift a plane, but doesn't seem to be able to punch villains like Reactron (1x03) into the next city.
  • Telescopic vision: Okay, this is a bit of a stretch, but what if the field is so sensitive that Kara can shape it to form lenses that distort the light before it enters her eyes?
  • X-Ray vision: Like telescopic vision, except the aura is shifting the x-rays into the visible parts of the spectrum before they enter Kara's eyes. (Yeah, I know this is stretching things a little!)
  • Heat vision: Going totally out on a limb here, but... maybe Kara has such fine-tuned control of the aura that she can channel her body's solar energy outwards? Maybe the aura is sucking the power from Kara's solar-charged body, and the most obvious orifice to use is her eyes (for targeting.)
  • Freezy breath: This is where I give up. I guess the aura could be sucking up and blasting out all the air immediately around Kara's body into one jet, but why it comes out of her mouth is a mystery! Perhaps the aura is sucking it up into her arse? As for why air would be colder, not warmer, after having been manipulated in such a way is also unexplainable.

So there you go. Easy-peasy-lemon.... is, erm, not a phrase an adult would use. B)

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