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Season 2 - Superman appearing

06 Jun 2016 19:11 #48306 by andyf
Season 2 - Superman appearing was created by andyf
It's been confirmed that Superman will be appearing in the first 2 episodes of season 2. Casting is underway. This is going to be a real, full appearance as Clark Kent or as Superman.

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06 Jun 2016 19:17 #48307 by LustMonster
Replied by LustMonster on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
Another chance for Nic Cage? :-D

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06 Jun 2016 19:23 #48308 by fats
Replied by fats on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

LustMonster wrote: Another chance for Nic Cage? :-D


I should ban you for that blasphemy. :P :lol: :P

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06 Jun 2016 19:50 #48311 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
Given that this series focus more on having Kara going full blown hero, but focusing on the human aspect of heroism, I would much prefer to see the human side of Clark as well. Not the cape.

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06 Jun 2016 20:26 #48312 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

andyf wrote: It's been confirmed that Superman will be appearing in the first 2 episodes of season 2. Casting is underway. This is going to be a real, full appearance as Clark Kent or as Superman.


Most likely will result in a ratings boost, but I think this news sucks.....

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06 Jun 2016 20:40 #48316 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
I would like to see.

Superman: "Hey Supergirl, I'm leaving for awhile. It'll be all on you now. Ta ta."
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06 Jun 2016 20:41 #48317 by andyf
Replied by andyf on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
Why do you think this is bad news? What's wrong with Superman appearing in a few episodes?

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06 Jun 2016 21:01 #48318 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

Markiehoe wrote: I would like to see.

Superman: "Hey Supergirl, I'm leaving for awhile. It'll be all on you now. Ta ta."


Exactly what I was going to say.

If he shows up at the beginning of the season to say simply that he has a mission in space or something than I am all for it. They should have done that last season. Hopefully they have figured it out now...
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06 Jun 2016 22:46 #48321 by Brad2
Replied by Brad2 on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
Maybe he could teach her a few things (like to stay at a distance when you encounter kryptonite, or to destroy it with heat vision or trap it with frost breath). Superman can help Supergirl in her growth as a heroine without needing to be the main attraction.

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07 Jun 2016 02:57 #48325 by andyf
Replied by andyf on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
I think he's showing up in National City because of the Kryptonian pod from the end of season 1.

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07 Jun 2016 03:25 #48327 by Random321
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That was my first thought as well. I'm kind of hoping for a "Hey Clark - come pick up your dog he's trashing National City." moment or similar then we can move on to SG episodes for the remaining 20 episodes. On the one hand I want the focus to stay on Supergirl. On the other hand I would like to see a good portrayal of Superman as well. I know I'm in the CW fan base minority, but I really hope it's not Tom Welling. I also really hope this isn't the slippery slope to pull the man of steel in at every ratings need or deus ex machina.

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07 Jun 2016 03:40 #48328 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
Yea, what is wrong with Kara saving his life?

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07 Jun 2016 03:56 #48329 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

andyf wrote: I think he's showing up in National City because of the Kryptonian pod from the end of season 1.


I continue to bet that the pod contains Kara L (Powergirl aka Karen Starr ala Kara 2) from the Earth 2 universe. As I see it, Kal El will take her under his wing to teach her about Earth and train her over in Metropolis, but the two Kara's will have team ups (or screw ups) in many episodes.

I'd further bet that Kal El's primary involvement in the Season 2 Supergirl show will be to develop with Kara 2, who might be much younger than Kara 1.

Further, what about Cat seeing some ridiculously overpowered event by Kara 2 (she doesn't know her abilities) and decides to name her Powergirl? You know, after the big deal on the Supergirl name in Season 1, that Cat will HAVE to do it again.

Shadar

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07 Jun 2016 18:52 #48340 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
I have no issue with Superman and while I know it's Superman who came first, I see it as Supergirl's show and I fear that Superman either dumb's down her character or will overshadow it. The inferred references to him in Season One -- with an exception of his "appearance in Myriad -- was just strange. It was either a quick save (Reactron) or some text conversation that seemed somewhat contrived.

I see Superman akin to another piece of furniture being added to an already overcrowded living room. The writers have a LOT to do to improve on in Season 2, and I see Superman as something else for them to be distracted by when they have enough on their plate.

If it is a guest star appearance, I wouldn't be so skeptical, but I get the impression that he's gonna be in an overriding arc.

Possible theory: While I think (and have heard) it's PG in the capsule, a possible route they could go is having Kal-El being in the capsule. This could be an Earth-2/Flashpoint type of plot now that Flash producers have hinted at that. Of course, that is a longshot given the casting calls for an actual Superman, not a baby or Superboy.

ElF

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07 Jun 2016 23:43 #48343 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

lfan wrote: I have no issue with Superman and while I know it's Superman who came first, I see it as Supergirl's show and I fear that Superman either dumb's down her character or will overshadow it. The inferred references to him in Season One -- with an exception of his "appearance in Myriad -- was just strange. It was either a quick save (Reactron) or some text conversation that seemed somewhat contrived.

I see Superman akin to another piece of furniture being added to an already overcrowded living room. The writers have a LOT to do to improve on in Season 2, and I see Superman as something else for them to be distracted by when they have enough on their plate.

If it is a guest star appearance, I wouldn't be so skeptical, but I get the impression that he's gonna be in an overriding arc.

Possible theory: While I think (and have heard) it's PG in the capsule, a possible route they could go is having Kal-El being in the capsule. This could be an Earth-2/Flashpoint type of plot now that Flash producers have hinted at that. Of course, that is a longshot given the casting calls for an actual Superman, not a baby or Superboy.

ElF


If I was writing Season 2, I'd make it PG in the pod, and she'd be younger and completely inexperienced and Clark would take her under his wing in Metropolis to train her and/or teach about Earth customs and so forth. That way they could have her interact with Kara when the story calls for it, but otherwise she (and Clark) would be absent.

That focus would not take away from Kara's adventures, but provide some confusion, conflict and/or help from time to time.

My favorite theory (strictly my own, I have no GQ) is that the Earth-2 Kara does something over the top with her strength (which she can't control at first) and Cat sees that and decides to call her Powergirl. As I've mentioned earlier, Cat has to name her after all the hoopla they made in Season 1 about her naming Supergirl, or so I see it.

Shadar

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08 Jun 2016 01:36 #48344 by ace191
Replied by ace191 on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
Maybe this will be a super kid sister to Supergirl. It will leave Kara to busy to date. She will have to spend her time stopping super villains and keeping her super sister out of trouble. Hank and whomever can tell Kara that her alt sister/cousin needs to lay low, but Kara will oppose that because she hated having to do that as a kid.

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08 Jun 2016 13:03 #48349 by five_red
Replied by five_red on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
What I'd like to see: Superman is killed off by the show's new big bad, through no fault of Kara's. Having only just begun her superheroic career, Kara has to face the prospect of stepping into her cousin's shoes to become Earth's primary protector. She spends the season wrestling with the conflict of knowing she was sent to Earth to protect Kal-El, and wondering when or if that promise to her mother ever expired. Is she still Kal-El's protector, even after the Phantom Zone swapped their circumstances around? Is she still his protector, even now he's a grown man?

What we'll probably get: some touchy feely scenes were Kal-El pats Kara on the head and tells her how proud he is of her and what a good little Supergirl she is, a la his chat messages. Then he'll excuse himself for the rest of the season, probably with an excuse that doesn't make any coherent sense ("I can't be Superman for a while because I have a whole load of Netfix box sets to catch up on before my subscription ends.")

As far as who's in the pod: I think everyone by now is generally agreed on the obvious candidate. Fats and I even chewed over casting suggestions a few weeks back :)


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08 Jun 2016 15:42 #48355 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
Sounds like we have a bit of a consensus in having a younger female Kryptonian in the pod. Hope we're guessing right.

I still think Supe's role in Season 2 will focus around the young Krypt, which will give them both an excuse to come and go from Supergirl on an episode by episode basis. That allows Kara to remain the focus, but she's now involved in Kryptonian family issues of a different type.

In season one, it was her relationship with her Aunt (and mother) that drove a portion of the story. Now we might have that family involvement/conflict/etc. driven by her cousin and her other ??cousin??. That makes some kind of sense, because it allows the writers to show the Earth versus Krypton loyalties thing. The contrasts between her relationships with her human family, which will get intense with finding her father, and also with her Kryptonian family. That seems to fit this show given its demographics. Exploring family relationships that aren't exactly normal, and are conflicted.

Of course, one has to remain cautious in assuming that what makes sense to us also makes sense to the writers. But if we've got most of the same writing staff and producers in place, we already know how they think.

Basically, the focus is on relationship issues which are stressed and focused and made dramatic by bad guys who drop in to try and destroy those relationships. Which is the show, in a nutshell.

Shadar

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08 Jun 2016 18:39 #48365 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
I think i'm in a minority.

While I'd LOVE to see Power Girl, I don't want her to be in the pod. I have to balance my OOOO POWERGIRL, with what I think would be good for the show. I'd rather Supergirl be about Supergirl. In fact, I think the entire pod is a bad idea, and I hate shows ending on the "if only the show ran 2.5 seconds more, we'd know what was in the pod" cliffhangers. I also don't generally approve of writers passing the buck to themselves. That is they take a few minutes and go "this sounds like a great idea", but haven't actually tried WRITING the idea for the next season. Write Season 1. Write Season 2. Make each a story that ends. You don't have to tie up all the plots, it is an ongoing story. But END Season 1. Don't open Season 2 or hamstring Season 2 while writing Season 1. I had the same problem with the end of Agents of SHIELD this season. Even the marvel bits in the movie don't do this ... they've actively making the movies the hints come from, so they can tack on a bit of the movie, or a little setup for it, but they already have a script/tone/etc for the movie. Heck the Ant-Man one is an actual scene from Civil War.

For that matter, i love Flashpoint as an idea, but if Flash deals with it longer than 2-3 episodes next season I think it'll SUCK. Part of the reason to watch a show is for character development, if you're just going to re-set everything, what's the point? Unless you don't do it for long, i.e. a few episodes, then it becomes a cool way to examine existing characters. iF it's the entire season? That better be some damn ass awesome writing, or I'l check out until it's all over. (Plus: in Flashpoint he's not the Flash, and uh, what's the point of Flash w/o Flash? Though i do wonder if you re-write the time line for Earth-1, does it affect someone on Earth-2?) So Flash did the same thing: that would be a great mid season ending, or something happening in the season. But ending the season on Flashpoint? Bad idea.

Maybe it's due to Flash, and it'll work out as Flash works things out, and somehow the young Kryptonian realizes she should be on her dimension rather than Supergirls. That works too.

Which is my similar reaction to the news of Superman appearing. In some ways, if the appearance is designed to get around the awkward "don't show Superman" stuff they've been doing, then it can work out. It's just he casts such a large shadow and it's easy for the show to become about Superman which is why they tried to keep him out of Season 1. Having him pat her on the head and leave the planet for awhile might be a good idea. At least this is coming about as they seem to be planning the actual season ... so they're trying to work out the Superman problem. I guess I'll take it as a good idea, and it really depends on how well they do. (Also: please do not have Superman be Tom Welling, have him guest star as someone else...)

The "have Superman take young Kryptonian under his wing" idea seems plausible.

Except, I think it's silly to have Superman do that. Which is better to acclimate a young Kryptonian? Someone who barely understands their culture, but knows their powers, and the local culture? Or someone who knows their culture, has successfully adapted to the local culture, and has a pretty good handle on learning how to use her powers (she's just gone through it). So unless there is a special reason for Superman to take the person away, it's better that Supergirl does this. Doubly so if it's a young woman.

Also, which is better, tie up the pre-eminent hero of the planet training/taking care of the new kid, or the secondary hero who basically takes care of one city? This is actually a core problem in Supergirl Season 1 ... they only really addressed it (badly) in Myriad, which took Superman out. Its part of the Superman problem, and part of making Supergirl a larger, skilled hero. Sometimes she should have to leave National City to take on larger threats, and she never did. I hope that in Season 2, now that she's got experience, this starts to happen.

If a junior kryptonian is permanently aded to the show, I don't see it making the show better. There's a trope about the # of times adding a kid to a show makes it worse. Has it ever worked? It must have at least once, but I'm blanking....Buffy maybe? She'd have to be an older teenager (possibly escaping the trope) -- especially for the CW -- and that can hit their target demographics. But I don't see this working out well longer term. Part of me does want to see what young hot woman they'd cast though since they'll likely target 17-21 for the age. But I seriously think she needs to be removed somehow (other than being killed.) or it'll unbalance a show that is already having problems finding it's balance.

My bet for who is in the pod? Her mother as it keeps Laura Benanti around . Not that I think that's a good idea (and I'd bet that something would go wrong and she'd have to go away for some reason for long stretches). The makeup of the show says the pod occupant is female, and the only choices are "older" (i.e. mother) or younger (alternate world, another cousin, etc). Honestly, as I said, I think the entire pod idea is a bad idea. I wait to be surprised when it works out and I love it. I am being honest about that too! Great writing can take any idea and make it work --- it's just that Supergirl and "great writing" having existed on TV yet....

Maybe it's a Daxamite. Then they can't stick around for long due to lead until a serum is made. Or someone escaping from the Fort as it blows up.

Either that or it really needs to be Streaky. And that's only because I think Streaky always makes things better. (In actual truth nothing would be scarier than a Super-powered Cat. And I love cats.) Dogs are useful, and one would expect to help in a fight, so not Krypto. Cats are ambivalent, and you'd not expect Streaky to come to someone's rescue often. That leaves Supergirl free to be Supergirl, while not making the show about someone else, or making yet another character that can save Supergirl.

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08 Jun 2016 19:05 #48368 by andyf
Replied by andyf on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
It's pretty clear the Supergirl's producers hate what WB films has done to Superman and think they can do better job with the character with even less money. I'm only surprised that WB is letting him appear on the show in full view at all.

I can't help shake the feeling one of the reasons WB is letting him appear is that they, WB don't have much respect for him as a character, as say Disney/ Marvel has for Spider-man. Are they ever going to make a Man of Steel sequel?

Marvel can't wait to make their own Spidey movie, but WB seems to have no real interest in making another Superman film.

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08 Jun 2016 19:05 #48369 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
My primary reason for my assuming that SM will take a young Kryptonian under his wing is that it will keep the show focused on Kara and her human family and friends. SM and his young charge would be in Metropolis most of the time. Also, the SG and SM comics (well, the older ones) had him in this role.

But if it's not a young Krypt, and instead it's Kara's mom, then that's also workable. They could write about the challenges of her real mom and her adoptive mom and family and so on. But that doesn't feel as strong unless we discover that some of the Fort Rozz residents survived and are coming back for more vengeance.

Also, judging by Kara's on-screen reaction to the pod at the end of Season 1 (assuming that means anything), it wasn't her mom. But... it's very possible that Melissa had no idea who was in the pod, and that she was directed to look generically surprised or whatever. But what IS clear is that the writers intend the pod occupant to have a significant influence on Season 2.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the speculation. Season 2 promises to keep us guessing, at least until they start filming and leaks start coming out. I'd be impressed if they could make it to air time without anyone interested knowing exactly who is in the pod. But here's hoping they can make it a surprise.

Even without leaks, we'll probably figure it out simply based on who is being cast for the show. That's hard to hide.

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08 Jun 2016 19:45 #48370 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

shadar wrote: My primary reason for my assuming that SM will take a young Kryptonian under his wing is that it will keep the show focused on Kara and her human family and friends. SM and his young charge would be in Metropolis most of the time. Also, the SG and SM comics (well, the older ones) had him in this role.


When he took this role mostly Supergirl either didn't exist, or was still a teenager. And most of the time it's for a one off (all is back to normal by the end of the issue/story), or it's an alternative history story (they had lots of those back then).

I'll also note in most incarnations, he doesn't do this for Supergirl, where he puts her up for adoption. Admittedly he's still a remote part of her life, but he's not there day to day. Maybe he feels guilty. (It's amazing how much a jerk Superman is in some of the stories from the 50's and 60's.) A notable exception is Power Girl, where a married Superman and Lois Lane raises PG as their daughter, which is another major difference between the characters.

There are the alternative timelines with his kid -- and that is coming to mainline DCU now, so I could see them using it as a parallel. But he's married to Lois there too ... I guess Superman with a kid needs to be married. :-) We don't know if Lois and Clark are married in Supergirl, but it doesn't seem like it. (Personally, let's do James Olson and Clark Kent. It explains so much about James Olson....)

But, my problem with your assertion is that it's makes sense for the show, i.e. keep the show focused on Kara. It however doesn't really make any sense to me from a character/writing perspective. That is, it's much like the Superman problem of Season 1. I knew why it needed to happen for the show, but it was cumbersome and poorly done and just irritated me every time it came up. I guess if it's used to take both off the board (Superman/other kyrptonian), and I didn't have it rubbed in my face all the time, it might work out. I can forget it and focus on the show.

It is interesting that in essence we agree that keeping a new character around will probably not work, and are both trying to figure out solutions to that....

As I said, I don't really like it being her mother ... it would give a weird dynamic, but an interesting one. It's hard dealing with a parent that still sees you as 13. If you add in that she doesn't know how to use her Kryptonian powers and in some ways need to learn from her daughter (but might not think that is the case, as is often with parents), that makes things extra awkward. Or the same thing with fitting in to earth culture (she keeps trying to make it into Krypton, or react like it is). And that brings another krypton/earth conflict into the mix ...

But I don't see this being a good fit long term either.... I just made it based on the simplistic "They seemed to like the actress, and now her characters are dead. How do they make her not-dead?" (Playing a robotic hologram isn't very fun/challenging).

But I feel they'd need to take her off the board somehow long term just like any other character in that pod. Aside from Streaky. ;-)

I suspect that no one knew what was in the pod ... and that's part of my problem too I guess.

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09 Jun 2016 10:06 #48388 by AuGoose
Replied by AuGoose on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
I think I'd like to see it be Kara's mom in the pod except for one inescapable detail - this sort of show is incapable of having a drama-free relationship between any of the characters.

In my head the scenes would quickly boil down to K-mom gushing with gratitude that the local took her daughter in, and has raised a pretty level-headed and otherwise fantastic young woman and wants to be part of Kara's life again, while E-mom welcomes it, unafraid and unthreatened because NOTHING will overwrite the bond she's formed with her adopted daughter and she knows Kara has more than enough heart to love them both.

But this is televisions, so it'll be 4 episodes of bitchy cat-fighting.

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09 Jun 2016 14:25 - 09 Jun 2016 14:29 #48390 by five_red
Replied by five_red on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing
Note, the following is not based on any insider knowledge or behind-the-scenes rumours; this is just my own twisted imagination...

I'd like to see an older Power Girl in the pod, a refugee from a war-torn parallel universe, battle hardened and jaded, with a touch of the anti-hero about her (not the full blown Snake Plissken, but certainly a tough streak that occasionally shows through.) Power Girl (Kara Zor-L) comes from a universe where her pod didn't get trapped in the Phantom Zone: she arrived on Earth with Kal-L as planned, and grew up to become Earth's first, and primary, protector (Kal-L is merely her junior.) Although she didn't have to deal with the Fort Rozz escapees, the weight of responsibility of keeping herself and Kal-L safe in a world full of humans fearful of their powers has paid a heavy price. Eventually some massive crisis visited Earth that forced Power Girl to retreat into another universe.

At first Kara Zor-El is delighted that she has a fellow female super-friend that she can relate to, but slowly she starts to realise that Kara Zor-L is a very different person to herself. While Supergirl is all about hope and faith and belief in people, Power Girl has had some of that wide-eyed optimism knocked out of her -- Kara Zor-L is the kind of heroine who would have used Max Lord's Kryptonite bomb, on the grounds that the death toll would be justified for the greater good. Slowly, Supergirl starts to see Power Girl's imperfections, and (this being a Berlanti show) she sets about trying to rekindle Power Girl's faith in humanity, and belief in the power of hope. With a renewed passion, Power Girl returns to her own universe convinced that she now knows how to help Earth defeat the crisis.

I like the idea that Power Girl is actually our Supergirl from a universe where the original Krypton escape plan worked. She's a reflection of how our Kara would have turned out if she'd actually had to shoulder the burden of raising the infant Kal-El while dealing with the confusion of a strange new planet, populated by people and governments who are deeply suspicious of her super abilities.

Remember, in the pre-Crisis era, Power Girl was older than Supergirl. The exact age of both women was never really established, but their life outside of their costumes gives us a rough idea at how old DC thought they were. Linda Danvers was probably in her early 20s given that she spent most of her time in college or starting a career, while Karen Starr was often depicted as already having established herself successfully into a career. Karen Starr, I think, was closer to Clark Kent and Diana Prince's apparent age -- maybe a bit younger. So an older Power Girl makes sense in terms of comics lore.

As far as how Superman may tie into all this: we know that Project Cadmus has a bigger role to play in season two, and we know that Superman so hates Cadmus that he works on his own rather than in cooperation with other government agencies specifically because of it. Perhaps Superman's involvement in the opening two episodes has more to do with Cadmus than the pod? Maybe Cadmus attempts to capture whoever is in the pod, and Superman ends up as their victim in the ensuing drama? Just speculation.

Just my 2c.


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09 Jun 2016 15:52 #48396 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Season 2 - Superman appearing

five_red wrote: Note, the following is not based on any insider knowledge or behind-the-scenes rumours; this is just my own twisted imagination...

I'd like to see an older Power Girl in the pod, a refugee from a war-torn parallel universe, battle hardened and jaded, with a touch of the anti-hero about her (not the full blown Snake Plissken, but certainly a tough streak that occasionally shows through.)

...

Just my 2c.


R5


If this were a different show, I'd agree with you completely and enthusiasticallly. PG is older, tougher, more cynical and more willing to use her powers. And then there's the whole boob window and her extreme "stare at me and I'll break your arm" provocation. She's a lot of fun, but she's also seriously kick-ass with an attitude. She fucks with people's heads by essentially being a male gender personality in an extreme female body, or so I see her. In later comic appearances (PG and Huntress series) she even approaches sex like a womanizing male, hiring men to work for her because they're pretty. She's not politically correct, and she loves it because she can.

As such, she'd overwhelm poor, gentle and still somewhat inexperienced Kara in the Supergirl show. Whomever or whatever is in the pod, it has to be something that doesn't fundamentally change the arc of the storytelling as we know it from Season 1. Which is about Kara and her relationships. About her finding her way in the ordinary world at Catco, and her super work with the DEO and with her sister. Plus we've got a more active role from her E-mom and E-dad coming up.

I don't think they'd go the trouble of that cliffhanging pod scene unless whatever is inside is going to be important to Season 2, but not overwhelm the already established story arcs. So it has to be someone who is subordinate to Kara and her role. PG is not subordinate to anyone. Not even Superman.

That's why I lean toward a younger female, given that Kara has undergone so much trauma and personal challenge to get where she is today -- apparently growing up on Earth without any help from Kal El. We could strengthen the family story arcs by having her be Kara's young equivalent from Earth 2, Kara-L. Perhaps Superman, realizing his shortcomings with Kara, will try harder to train her as well, which gives him a role that doesn't detract from Kara's main character focus.

We can't forget that Superman WILL appear and interact with characters (in the flesh) in several episodes. Given that huge departure from Season 1, I like to think his appearances and the pod are related somehow. What we ABSOLUTELY know is that we have two new Kryptonians appearing alongside Kara in Season 2. Whatever we conjecture, it has to resolve that apparent fact while keeping the dramatic focus on Kara and her relationships.

So... how do you put Superman and a pod occupant into the show without taking focus away from Kara as the main character?

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