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Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman

16 May 2016 01:07 #47875 by Markiehoe
Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman was created by Markiehoe
Captain America: Civil War easily passed Batman vs Superman at the Box Office both in the U.S. and abroad.
It did it in about 2 1/2 weeks.

variety.com/2016/film/news/box-office-ca...orldwide-1201775170/

B vs S box office to date: $862.9 million

I am a big fan of movie version Scarlett Witch.

Just about everyone I've talked to said Wonder Woman is the standout in B vs S.

It's looking pretty good for Superpowered women in film.
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16 May 2016 10:05 #47878 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman
Agree. Things are looking good.

Peace.

/K
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16 May 2016 14:16 - 16 May 2016 14:39 #47883 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman
Marvel fanboys who say BvS was the worst piece of garbage ever made and who made it their mission to post and repost negative articles about it are losers. It was NOT a bad movie, IMO, although it did have some major plot deficiencies.

I like both but prefer DC's stable to Marvel's pantheon on heroes any day of the week. That said, Civil War was a much better movie in my opinion. I'll give Marvel kudos for that. Fight scenes and effects were spectacular.

If Marvel's movie team paired up with DC's TV and Animation teams, that would be a juggernaut of a company. Unforatuntely, they both are pretty crappy in the actual comics department of late.....
Last edit: 16 May 2016 14:39 by lfan.

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16 May 2016 14:45 #47885 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman

Marvel fanboys who say BvS was the worst piece of garbage ever made and who made it their lesson to post and repost negative articles about it are losers.


Wait, what???

It was NOT a bad movie, IMO, although it did have some major plot deficiencies.


Does not compute.

I like both but prefer DC's stable to Marvel's pantheon on heroes any day of the week.


Fair enough.

That said, Civil War was a much better movie in my opinion. I'll give Marvel kudos for that. Fight scenes and effects were spectacular.


No argument there.

If Marvel's movie team paired up with DC's TV and Animation teams, that would be a juggernaut of a company.


Or, you know, DC could just ditch their cinematic universe, fire all those people and hand the whole thing over to their TV/Animation division. No need for Marvel to be involved.

Unforatuntely, they both are pretty crappy in the actual comics department of late.....


No argument there.


Peace.

/K

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16 May 2016 15:04 - 16 May 2016 15:04 #47888 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman

kikass2014 wrote: Or, you know, DC could just ditch their cinematic universe, fire all those people and hand the whole thing over to their TV/Animation division. No need for Marvel to be involved.\


You know, people have said that before (including me), and it amazes me that one of everyone's biggest complaints with DC's movies is the "story" (e.g. WW took so long to do because her story was tricky"). Funny how the animated division's strength --- for the most part -- is their stories. And they crank out two of them per year. WW's animated movie would have been a fine adaptation to the screen, IMO. I just don't get sometimes what the big deal is.

Concerning the "fanboys" comments, Kikass, it wasn't directed specifically at you. However, there are a ton of people who played no other purpose in life than to post and repost how bad it was and how bad it was doing -- I must have seen the "drops 69% after first week" story regurgitated and reposted about 100 times. However, when Civil War drops 73% its second week, I don't hear a peep. Both movies made bank, so it's hard to say they were a (financial) flop. Yeah, yeah....it didn't hit $1B, but let's not act like it was the second coming of Ishtar either.

My definition of a "bad movie" is was it a waste of my ticket? Certainly not in this case. Green Lantern? Yes, definitely! Amazing Spiderman 2? You bet! But not SmVsBm in my opinion. Not in my top 5 superhero movies but not in my bottom 5 either. I was one of the first to think the "Martha" bit was pretty dumb, but did it ruin the movie for me? No! The pacing was crazy fast and it jumped around quite a bit, but so did Civil War for the most part.

ElF
Last edit: 16 May 2016 15:04 by lfan.

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16 May 2016 16:21 - 16 May 2016 16:22 #47892 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman

You know, people have said that before (including me), and it amazes me that one of everyone's biggest complaints with DC's movies is the "story" (e.g. WW took so long to do because her story was tricky"). Funny how the animated division's strength --- for the most part -- is their stories. And they crank out two of them per year. WW's animated movie would have been a fine adaptation to the screen, IMO. I just don't get sometimes what the big deal is.


Totally agree. The DC animated movies are awesome. If I was the head honcho, like I said, I would get rid of all those currently involved with the cinematic universe, reboot the whole thing and install Bruce Timm and Paul Dini as the "overseers".

Concerning the "fanboys" comments, Kikass, it wasn't directed specifically at you.


Fair enough.

My definition of a "bad movie" is was it a waste of my ticket? Certainly not in this case...


Fair enough. Not gonna argue, but one point I would like to make - in all the posts I have made regarding B vs S, I have NEVER argued about taste. That is ones personal opinion and thus cannot be used in an objective argument/dialogue.


Peace.

/K
Last edit: 16 May 2016 16:22 by kikass2014.

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16 May 2016 16:23 #47893 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman

kikass2014 wrote:

You know, people have said that before (including me), and it amazes me that one of everyone's biggest complaints with DC's movies is the "story" (e.g. WW took so long to do because her story was tricky"). Funny how the animated division's strength --- for the most part -- is their stories. And they crank out two of them per year. WW's animated movie would have been a fine adaptation to the screen, IMO. I just don't get sometimes what the big deal is.


Totally agree. The DC animated movies are awesome. If I was the head honcho, like I said, I would get rid of all those currently involved with the cinematic universe, reboot the whole thing and install Bruce Timm and Paul Dini as the "overseers".

Concerning the "fanboys" comments, Kikass, it wasn't directed specifically at you.


Fair enough.

My definition of a "bad movie" is was it a waste of my ticket? Certainly not in this case...


Fair enough. Not gonna argue, but one point I would like to make - in all the posts I have made regarding B vs S, I have NEVER argued about taste. That is ones personal opinion and thus cannot be used in an objective argument/dialogue.


Peace.

/K


All good, man.....{hugz}

ElF

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16 May 2016 17:52 #47896 by jdrock24
Replied by jdrock24 on topic Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman
Don't mind me. I'm just passing through minding my own business...

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I'm not even going to say that I agree with LFan's point about the unnecessary hate BM V SM gets.
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16 May 2016 19:50 #47897 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman
I don't know where this hate talk comes from.
I thought that the original post was an extremely positive one about superpowered women in movies.
B vs S did very well except by Hollywood standards and the breakout star was Wonder Woman.
Scarlett Witch has quietly become one of the most powerful characters in the MCU and general audiences actually like her.

Things are looking good for superpowered women in movies.

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16 May 2016 20:49 #47898 by lfan
Replied by lfan on topic Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman

Markiehoe wrote: I don't know where this hate talk comes from.
I thought that the original post was an extremely positive one about superpowered women in movies.
B vs S did very well except by Hollywood standards and the breakout star was Wonder Woman.
Scarlett Witch has quietly become one of the most powerful characters in the MCU and general audiences actually like her.

Things are looking good for superpowered women in movies.


Hmm.....

In reading over my post, it seems like I flew off the handle for no apparent reason. I could have sworn I was posting more "on topic" but perhaps I'm just going crazy. I did not take offense to your original post, Mark, not at all. My comments seem kind of out of left field as I now re-read the posts in sequential order now.
Perhaps, I thought I was posting to another thread.

My apologies to everyone.....

ElF
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16 May 2016 20:54 #47899 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman
To quote Francis in Logan's Run:
"We all go a little crazy sometimes."
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16 May 2016 22:55 - 16 May 2016 22:56 #47904 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman
Nvm.


Peace.

/K
Last edit: 16 May 2016 22:56 by kikass2014.

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16 May 2016 23:01 #47905 by AuGoose
Replied by AuGoose on topic Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman
Speaking of the DC animation department... Gotham seems clever. They've evidently hired on Bruce Tim directly to write episodes when those episodes are going to introduce characters from the Batman mythos. Using his talent specifically to give those characters a good first showing.

I suspect there's bad blood between the animation and movie sides of the house - as the animation folks haven't hesitated to rub the movie makers' collective noses in their own shit on multiple occasions, releasing films with the same characters in vastly better stories about them.

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17 May 2016 01:14 #47908 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Scarlett Witch vs Wonder Woman

lfan wrote: If Marvel's movie team paired up with DC's TV and Animation teams, that would be a juggernaut of a company. Unforatuntely, they both are pretty crappy in the actual comics department of late.....


I always thought that when DC did their last reboot (and their upcoming reboot) they made a HUGE mistake in not pulling in animation writing teams and giving them a say. Or at least having them look over things before they pull the trigger.

And it's obvious that the Movie teams shoudl have been talking to the animation teams all along. (I think I'll enjoy Suicide Squad, but wonder if it'll be a better movie than Batman: Assault on Arkham. B:AoA has one of the best 'introduce a lot of characters' sequences. It's in, it's out and then carries the load with good writing. One of the best Harley Quinn depictions ever.)

This is probably true of Rebirth which seems to correct some of the problems of 52, but I'm still not sure if it'll end out getting me to buy books. Though if you give Lois Lane superman powers I'm buying the book for awhile.

Post Secret Wars Marvels been doing much better IMO. They brought in a lot of new voices, they made positive changes to their comic list, with a large variety of titles (and a bunch of those are female led). EVERY group comic has powerful women on it. These things are important, but in the end, the STORY and CHARACTERIZATION are the important thing, and I think Marvel gets that now. I think DC needs to re-learn that.

Funny though, when I commission, aside from She-Hulk, I have to work to not make it all DC. I'd say that in balance I've leaned more towards Marvel than DC,but i've always liked both and see no reason to hate the other. That's silly talk.

I enjoyed BvS, but not as much as Civil War. And my problems with BvS are mostly construction and how they treat characters. I've never really warmed to the MoS/BvS Superman. I still had a good time at the movie. Though, I managed to enjoy Fantastic Four and that took A LOT of effort. I mean I don't think there's enough of the last FF movie to properly criticize. I think some of the vitriol of BvS is that there is a lot to grab ahold of and complain about.

I think Marvel blunts some of that by their sheer willingness to embrace the fun fanboy moments. I think that frustrates some hard core movie geeks. Even if the script is over-all week, toss in a few nice jokes and character moments and no one notices all the problems, or the reaction is "don't care, did you see Hulk grab loki and smash him around and say 'Puny God?"

For BvS, I'm not sure if you removed WW and Jeremy Iron's Alfred, that I'd think the movie sucked. That is if you took those elements out, it tips the balance and I can't ignore the other flaws. Hell, _while watching the movie_ I couldn't buy two of the best scenes -- I knew they were written well/acted well/etc -- but they didn't fit for me. (Hunter's amazing performance in the Senate Hearing, and the Superman/Lex scene with the Martha photos). I can't jive the lex who did those things with the one who out plans EVERYONE else in the movie across years. It's a self-control/no self-control kind of thing. (for the senate hearing I'm talking about the jar of piss, not the end of the scene, and the martha scene it's the photos and the "witch" on the forehead thing. Also, Lex Luthor shouldn't be the Joker (the photos were a DIRECT Killing Joke reference), he should be Lex Luthor, which this movie actually needed to make it work.)

But the real flaw is that I'm thinking about that while watching the movie...

Read someone saying there were MORE characters in Civil War and people don't rag on the movie about that but they rag on BvS for that. I'll say that it's because the "new" characters all had strong voices to communicate who they were: Spider-Man, Black Panther (and the new to the group movies Ant-Man). Even War Machine had a great consistent voice.

Civil War itself has a huge plot holes starting with "The UN doesn't do that", along with the examples they used to demonstrate why the Avengers need "handled", which were all about how the government fucked up or why people need to reign in Tony Stark. But it's never central to complaints about the movie, people had too much fun watching Ant-Man, Spider-Man and Black Panther tear up the screen. (And I don't know how anyone gets to the end of the movie and are still on Team Iron Man. Tony shows his true colors at the end: he's an irresponsible child who can't control himself, and that's why he wants someone else to do it for him. This is also consistent with all the Iron Man and Avengers movies, he turned his company over to Pepper for the same reason. It's totally brilliant. He's ALWAYS been that way, he's just charming so you forgive him.)

Lots of movies toss down new characters and we pick them up as we go. Do it well, it's great writing. Do it badly, and you start to be a jumbled mess (i.e. what I think about BvS).

OTH, Wonder Woman I think was done perfectly. I don't think she could have been handled better in the movie.

Really I think that's what a lot of the BvS hate is, they were just short. A few tweaks here and there and then the Martha scene wouldn't have made me laugh, or they'd have rewritten the end of the scene. (I was waiting for Batman to stop the fight as he'd destroyed all the bugs and was out of view of the helicopter.)

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