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Tomb Raider 2018

21 Sep 2017 23:38 #56311 by Starforge
Tomb Raider 2018 was created by Starforge
Finally, someone who takes their training seriously to play the part (*cough* Gal Gadot *cough*) That is, at least for those of us who like our women to actually look strong and athletic which I realize is a subset of people here. Video link is her prep for the role along with bits from filming and some of the trailer.



Of course, some were probably disappointed with this casting as she lacks some of the usual attributes, but she's an accomplished actress and here's hoping that the writing and direction make it a movie worth seeing. The trailer looks good (not what I linked but easy to find) but that doesn't always mean much.

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22 Sep 2017 00:17 #56312 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Tomb Raider 2018

Starforge wrote: Finally, someone who takes their training seriously to play the part (*cough* Gal Gadot *cough*) That is, at least for those of us who like our women to actually look strong and athletic which I realize is a subset of people here. Video link is her prep for the role along with bits from filming and some of the trailer.



Of course, some were probably disappointed with this casting as she lacks some of the usual attributes, but she's an accomplished actress and here's hoping that the writing and direction make it a movie worth seeing. The trailer looks good (not what I linked but easy to find) but that doesn't always mean much.


Since this movie seem heavily based on the 2013 reboot game that gave a us a much younger and less porn-static looking Lara, I think that the cast choice wasn't so bad. I've heard, of course, a lot of comparison with Angelina Jolie, but the bottom line is that these are two very different characters. Jolie played classic Lara, who was supposed to look and be as badass as possible while being incredibly alluring at the same time; the Lara from 2013 is supposed to be a much more normal character that grows into the ass-kicking we all know over a long and pretty painful ordeal.

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22 Sep 2017 00:30 #56314 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Tomb Raider 2018
I liked the classic, over the top, Lara played by Jolie.

Both her movies are flawed.
I don't think I even stuck around to the end of the second one to be truthful.
But at least in the first movie they got the look of the character right.

This new Lara kind of is just there.
She does not dominate the scenes she is in.
Kinda boring.

I personally don't need a Lara Croft origin story.

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22 Sep 2017 07:21 #56315 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Tomb Raider 2018
I liked Jolie's movies for what they were. In this case, however, I admire her work ethic. Alicia is a pretty woman - she could have done what most actresses do in this situation and just act through the parts, let the stunt doubles do the work, and get her check. As to whether the movie will be any good, /shrug, like every movie that comes out it depends a lot on the writing / directing / story (at least for me.) She's no Jolie (hard to compete with that) but I would argue she's a better actress - maybe they'll get some use out of that.

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22 Sep 2017 09:25 #56316 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Tomb Raider 2018
Alicia Vikander will be fine as Lara. She is a great actress, even at her young age. And while this film doesn't really stretch her talents, I can see her doing fine.

The question for me is, is this really Lara Croft?

I must confess, I was a fan of the original Tomb Raider, back on PS1. But as the series grew, it became more and more distant from what it was setup to be. So much so, that, if I remember right, Toby Gard (Lara's creator) was either ousted or left the company. At that point, I also left the series, and never looked back.

The point of Lara Croft was that she was this mysterious, sexy, badass.

Now, every nook of her upbringing and life is explored and presented to you. And I think that takes away a lot of what she was about.

Instead of being this teenage nerd boys fantasy, she is now this feminist icon.

Whether the film will be good or not, I agree, will have to wait and see. A lot does depend on writing and direction and not just the actors.

But as far as I'm concerned, may as well have called the film Sara Loft: Archaeologist

Just my 2 cents.

Peace.

/K.
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22 Sep 2017 09:50 #56317 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Tomb Raider 2018
You are probably right, but then the same could be said of WW or any other female centered story nowadays (though I find it funny that they still pandered to the teenage boy fantasy by cosplaying essentially a Victoria's secret model for WW.) It's the time we live in - just like for those of us that grew up in the cold war era, many movies and shows reflected those themes. 10-20 years from now they'll be on some new kick.

Even as an archaeologist, Indiana Jones worked :).

PS. Nothing but love for Gal Gadot even though I would have wished for a better casting choice personally. She seems a decent person, did a passable job on the movie and wish her nothing but success for the remainder of the movies. Any snark should be taken with that caveat.

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22 Sep 2017 10:48 #56318 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Tomb Raider 2018

kikass2014 wrote: Alicia Vikander will be fine as Lara. She is a great actress, even at her young age. And while this film doesn't really stretch her talents, I can see her doing fine.

The question for me is, is this really Lara Croft?

I must confess, I was a fan of the original Tomb Raider, back on PS1. But as the series grew, it became more and more distant from what it was setup to be. So much so, that, if I remember right, Toby Gard (Lara's creator) was either ousted or left the company. At that point, I also left the series, and never looked back.

The point of Lara Croft was that she was this mysterious, sexy, badass.

Now, every nook of her upbringing and life is explored and presented to you. And I think that takes away a lot of what she was about.

Instead of being this teenage nerd boys fantasy, she is now this feminist icon.

Whether the film will be good or not, I agree, will have to wait and see. A lot does depend on writing and direction and not just the actors.

But as far as I'm concerned, may as well have called the film Sara Loft: Archaeologist

Just my 2 cents.

Peace.

/K.


I have to say that I came in from the opposite angle. I never enjoyed the classic Tomb Raider games too much and if I look back at them the presentation of Lara was one of the things that gave me problems. To put it simply classic Lara was introduced and played as the mysterious, sexy badass, but we didn't get any hint, any element that justified her ungodly level of skill. For me she felt like she was just a bunch of traits piled up on each other: she's gorgeous, she's cool, she's badass, she can shot like a pro, she's filthy rich and an English noblewoman to booth and so on. I felt there was no depth to the character (BTW, I often feel the same about Batman), no significant reason for all these element to be strung together on a single character. What I enjoyed of the 2013 version was that we saw Lara cast in a situation that was anything but conventional and rising to the occasion.
There's a moment in the last part of the game when Lara storms the villains' fort singlehandedly. At some point during the scene one of the mercenaries scream something like "Oh my god, she's coming for us." and this is from the same guys who tried to rape Lara earlier in the game. In that story we see the transition from potential victim to ungodly badass, the character isn't established being such from the beginning, but we witness the transformation and for me this adds to the character instead of detracting.

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22 Sep 2017 19:11 #56323 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Tomb Raider 2018

To put it simply classic Lara was introduced and played as the mysterious, sexy badass, but we didn't get any hint, any element that justified her ungodly level of skill. For me she felt like she was just a bunch of traits piled up on each other: she's gorgeous, she's cool, she's badass, she can shot like a pro, she's filthy rich and an English noblewoman to booth and so on. I felt there was no depth to the character (BTW, I often feel the same about Batman), no significant reason for all these element to be strung together on a single character. What I enjoyed of the 2013 version was that we saw Lara cast in a situation that was anything but conventional and rising to the occasion.
There's a moment in the last part of the game when Lara storms the villains' fort singlehandedly. At some point during the scene one of the mercenaries scream something like "Oh my god, she's coming for us." and this is from the same guys who tried to rape Lara earlier in the game. In that story we see the transition from potential victim to ungodly badass, the character isn't established being such from the beginning, but we witness the transformation and for me this adds to the character instead of detracting.


Totally understand where you are coming from...

To put it simply classic Lara was introduced and played as the mysterious, sexy badass, but we didn't get any hint, any element that justified her ungodly level of skill.


And thats the point exactly.

Not everything needs to be deconstructed or justified, as long as there is a certain level of logic and thought given. Lets take Lara as an example.

she's gorgeous, she's cool, she's badass, she can shot like a pro, she's filthy rich and an English noblewoman


This is (or maybe was?), in the main, every geeks fantasy woman. As a gamer, I didn't need nor care to know more about her in the context of the game. At that age, I just wanted to shoot things and look at her triangular boobs :P

On a more serious note, I think this is something that has become a LOT more prevalent in media today - the need to spoon feed everything to the audience. Its prevalent in films, music, books.

Most of the runtime of movies today is exposition. The lyrics of songs are linear. There is no poetry to them, no symbolism, no ambiguity.

The great songs, I'm specifically referring to songs as art, have an ambiguity to them. You the listener are left to decipher the meaning, what they are. The same with films (and I'm not talking bullshit arty-for- the-sake of art films). If video games are an art form (which I believe they are), then the same applies to them.

Of course, this is just my opinion. But, going back to Lara, even at a base level, it made her so much more interesting when there was a mystery to her.

The same argument could be leveled at, say, James Bond. Who is he? In 50 years, his background has NEVER been really explored. Guess what? It doesn't make a slight bit of difference to the stories he features in. In fact, it adds to his mystique.

A more modern example could be John Wick. When you deconstruct the film down, it makes little sense in terms of his motivations. But to do that misses the point of the film. There is a beautiful absurdity to it that was preconceived, planned, and executed brilliantly.

The Flash in comics. I don't care how his powers work, Barry Allen is the fastest man alive, "the impossible". Thats all that needs to be said.

I understand that in some genres, character background, motivation, history, etc. are important.

I just think that in the case of Lara Croft, you're (not you specifically Woodclaw) missing the point if that is what you focus on.

Interesting discussion :)

Peace.

/K
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22 Sep 2017 22:06 #56332 by Starforge
Replied by Starforge on topic Tomb Raider 2018

kikass2014 wrote: I understand that in some genres, character background, motivation, history, etc. are important.

I just think that in the case of Lara Croft, you're (not you specifically Woodclaw) missing the point if that is what you focus on.

Interesting discussion :)

Peace.

/K


I get exactly what you are saying. A couple of points.

First, I don't see how they effectively sell badass and boobs as a high level project in the current environment. It doesn't fit the current cultural narrative. They may do things like slip in the Victoria's secret model in order to get the boys to show up but NOBODY mentions it in those terms - in fact they completely avoid the issue.

Second, *If* they can make a good movie and work towards some sequels, then filling out her story can work. There will always be opportunities to insert mystery in a mystical / historical /spiritual item, group or backstory that it doesn't need to be rooted solely in the main character. Hollywood hasn't done a lot to prove they can do that well, however, as most of their mysteries seem to flop as obvious, stereotypical or just stupid. The odds aren't in their favor, but I'm willing to roll the dice.

Mostly unknown non-Hollywood director. Mostly untested writer (though the writer is also writing Captain Marvel.) Both of these things lower the odds of this coming out well but they also raise the odds slightly of it being exceptional with a very wide range in the likely middle somewhere.

Also enjoying the discussion.

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23 Sep 2017 00:35 #56338 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Tomb Raider 2018

First, I don't see how they effectively sell badass and boobs as a high level project in the current environment.


Just had flashbacks to Barb Wire when I read this :D

But I get what you are saying :)

I'll get back to your post later as I'm a little tired atm :)

Peace.

/K

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18 Jan 2018 20:18 #58187 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Tomb Raider 2018
Trailer number 2




Same boring character.
Same boring costume..

The actress is just there.
You could call her Cara Loft and get the same results.
She does not project or dominate any scene she is in.
It is like they are afraid of embracing the character.

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18 Jan 2018 20:50 #58188 by kikass2014
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Looks generic and boring.

Pass.

Peace.

/K
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19 Jan 2018 00:29 #58190 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Tomb Raider 2018
Alicia Vikander at least looks the part of an extreme action hero. Ultra fit. She looks like she could take some punishment and still keep ticking.

Angelina Jolie never looked right to me to play Laura. Wrong body type. Chicken-boned wrists that would snap so easily. But back in the day, they just put some oversized fake boobs on her and sold her to adolescents. She's a pretty fair actress, and that helped.

Don't know how good the writing and acting will be in this sequel, but Alicia gets my vote for the role.

Shadar
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19 Jan 2018 09:56 #58193 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Tomb Raider 2018

Alicia Vikander at least looks the part of an extreme action hero. Ultra fit. She looks like she could take some punishment and still keep ticking.


Hmm, I don't know about that tbh Shadar.

Vikander is a damn fine actress to be fair (and attractive). So she will do the best of whatever she is given with regards to the writing.

But back in the day, they just put some oversized fake boobs on her and sold her to adolescents.


That's the whole point of Lara Croft.

Seems like the modern, PC, SJW, feminist, modernist, pessimistic, impressionistic, etc, etc, etc, world, has either forgotten or chooses to ignore this fact.

Like Markiehoe says, just call her Cara Loft. At least that way, you appear to be trying something new.

Just my thoughts :)

Peace.

/K
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19 Jan 2018 11:05 #58194 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Tomb Raider 2018
Exactly!

They love the name recognition that Lara Croft: Tomb Raider has but they are ashamed of everything that gave the product name recognition.

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19 Jan 2018 11:09 #58195 by AuGoose
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I'm guessing most folks here haven't played the more recent games. Because the faithfulness of this production to those its full-on stunning to me.
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19 Jan 2018 13:08 #58196 by kshoo
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I actually think that this show has a lot of potential, and i second Shadar's thoughts - i really do think Vikander is really suited to play the part.

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19 Jan 2018 13:17 #58197 by kikass2014
Replied by kikass2014 on topic Tomb Raider 2018

I'm guessing most folks here haven't played the more recent games. Because the faithfulness of this production to those its full-on stunning to me.


Thats actually my whole point. "Modern" Tomb Raider (games et al) isn't TOMB RAIDER.

They may as well have given it a new name, since they don't seem to understand what the original concept was about. Except...

They love the name recognition that Lara Croft: Tomb Raider has but they are ashamed of everything that gave the product name recognition.


BINGO!

I have no problem with people who enjoy the "new" Tomb Raider games/films. Taste is subjective. As long as they can admit that they really aren't playing/watching "Tomb Raider", but are just being suckered in by the brand recognition.

Peace.

/K
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19 Jan 2018 13:58 - 19 Jan 2018 13:58 #58198 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Tomb Raider 2018

kikass2014 wrote:

I have no problem with people who enjoy the "new" Tomb Raider games/films. Taste is subjective. As long as they can admit that they really aren't playing/watching "Tomb Raider", but are just being suckered in by the brand recognition.

Peace.

/K


I never cared much for the original Tomb Raider, although I did like the character's basic concept. As I result, I don't understand the subtleties associated with "this is" or "this isn't" Tomb Raider. Whether it uses an existing brand or creates a new one is irrelevant to me.

What I'm looking for is a wild and crazy action movie based on amazing physical stunts starring a very hot and very fit actress who can project a bit of quasi-superhuman power. Someone with chemistry. Based on the trailers, this movie and Alicia Viklander deliver that.

So I'm sure I'll enjoy the heck out of it without suffering any cultural shock or doubts about its authenticity or legitimacy. From what I've seen, Alicia is a much better fit than Angelina for playing a bigger-than-life action hero. She's got real muscles that actually move and not just pumped up fake boobs on a bird-like frame.

We'll see if she remains convincing in the full movie. If she does, then long live the 21st century Tomb Raider franchise.

Shadar
Last edit: 19 Jan 2018 13:58 by shadar.
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19 Jan 2018 14:41 #58199 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Tomb Raider 2018

kikass2014 wrote:

I'm guessing most folks here haven't played the more recent games. Because the faithfulness of this production to those its full-on stunning to me.


Thats actually my whole point. "Modern" Tomb Raider (games et al) isn't TOMB RAIDER.

They may as well have given it a new name, since they don't seem to understand what the original concept was about. Except...

They love the name recognition that Lara Croft: Tomb Raider has but they are ashamed of everything that gave the product name recognition.


BINGO!

I have no problem with people who enjoy the "new" Tomb Raider games/films. Taste is subjective. As long as they can admit that they really aren't playing/watching "Tomb Raider", but are just being suckered in by the brand recognition.

Peace.

/K


I'm sorry to go down like this, but I working on this same logic pretty much any franchise that evolved past its first iteraction would be considered untrue. Darth Vader won't be Anakin Skywalker, because that was not part of the original Star Wars script, hence the rest of the franchise are not "real" star Wars movies. Superman was not supposed to flight or have heat vision or ... >gasp< ... a blonde teenager cousin. And the list goes on.
If you're a fan of the old Tomb Raider games, I don't think anyone can fault you for that, but please accept the idea that the franchise moved on and changed over time. We can argue to death over which interpretation was better, without going anywhere.

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