Amount

Captain Marvel - Spoilers - Enter at your own risk

30 Apr 2019 01:22 #63837 by ballen
I wanted to make a quick comment on Capt. Marvel's appearance in "Avengers: End Game."  Well in short, she doesn't appear that often in the movie at all - only a couple of times.  She does however appear at the critical moments.  I discussed with a buddy of mine why she didn't appear much in the movie and we came up with two reasons:  1) She wasn't a part of the original Avengers team and the movie focused more on the characters we have grown familiar with and the bonds they have formed with each other while battling evil together all these years; and 2) she is just too powerful.  In the climactic battle, we see that defeating Thanos and his army single-handedly is well within her capabilities.  She doesn't, because of some clever improvisation on Thanos' part while battling her, but she is definitely powerful enough.  Having her engage more in the battle would result in it ending too quickly - for audiences.

She says in the beginning with a dead pan, matter of fact voice that she was going to go find and kill Thanos.  It was kind of funny, but it turns out, she could.

It makes sense though.  She travels the universe helping those that need help and in Earth's battle v Thanos it was no different.  She allocated just enough time and effort to help the Avengers win and then it's off to the next one.

My thoughts / 2 cents.  Curious what others think.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Apr 2019 01:43 - 30 Apr 2019 05:14 #63838 by Dru1076
Definitely under used. But this was the Avenger big finale and it's n oi surprise they centred more on the main characters from the previous films. 

Two things stood out as a bit amusing... She clearly could have destroyed Thanos's ship and army ANY TIME she wanted to. Why wait? They could have sent her back in time and just have her kill Thanos and his army before he gets any stones. All sorted...job done.  The other thing was when they hand her the glove, and someone says "But how's she gonna get through that?"  Funny. She can travel faster than light under her own power. And she can smash through anything in her path.

Still...her few appearances were spectacular and enjoyable. Endgame was a great movie.

"Stupid Reality!" - Homer J. Simpson
Last edit: 30 Apr 2019 05:14 by Dru1076.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 May 2019 13:26 #63909 by brantley
Remember how some people were railing against Brie Larson as a stuck-up Social Justice Warrior? Now others are railing against her as an icon of white supremacy!

https://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/972/607/589/?fbclid=IwAR38KTxjS_U0J2GHzV0w-UivVW2oWZhog-jj08Y29kTvug7zcqRWDIS1YYo

In today's stupid ideological wars, you can't win!

--Brantley Thompson Elkins

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • brantley
  • brantley's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Uberposter of Distinction
  • Uberposter of Distinction
More
05 May 2019 18:05 #63912 by shadar

brantley wrote: Remember how some people were railing against Brie Larson as a stuck-up Social Justice Warrior? Now others are railing against her as an icon of white supremacy!

https://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/972/607/589/?fbclid=IwAR38KTxjS_U0J2GHzV0w-UivVW2oWZhog-jj08Y29kTvug7zcqRWDIS1YYo

In today's stupid ideological wars, you can't win!

--Brantley Thompson Elkins


Last I heard she was just another actress. A moderately good one who is still learning how to manage her public persona. 

Seems to me people confuse characters with actors way too much. It's all fantasy in the end.

Shadar
The following user(s) said Thank You: rabid_schnauzer

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 May 2019 18:28 #63956 by Avalian
A bit of added craziness for that petition.

1) The petition is because Captain Marvel was "Whitewashed", claiming the original Captain Marvel was a black woman. This of course, misses that the Captain Marvel they are referring to was in fact the 3rd comic book character to have that name - following one white male and one visually white skinned alien male, the second one in Marvel alone, and whose only relation to the character's "Captain Marvel" involved in this story is that she adopted her name in recognition of the original.

2) The Captain Marvel they refer to is actually in the movie played by a black woman. She is the main character's friend, Monica - and they are using the current continuity of the comics that has the two characters having served in the air force together.

It's always good to know the history of a character before claiming they're whitewashed, and getting over 9000 (closing quickly on the 10000 that will trigger it sending to Disney) signatures..

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 May 2019 19:07 #63957 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Captain Marvel - Spoilers - Enter at your own risk

Avalian wrote: A bit of added craziness for that petition.

1) The petition is because Captain Marvel was "Whitewashed", claiming the original Captain Marvel was a black woman. This of course, misses that the Captain Marvel they are referring to was in fact the 3rd comic book character to have that name - following one white male and one visually white skinned alien male, the second one in Marvel alone, and whose only relation to the character's "Captain Marvel" involved in this story is that she adopted her name in recognition of the original.

2) The Captain Marvel they refer to is actually in the movie played by a black woman. She is the main character's friend, Monica - and they are using the current continuity of the comics that has the two characters having served in the air force together.

It's always good to know the history of a character before claiming they're whitewashed, and getting over 9000 (closing quickly on the 10000 that will trigger it sending to Disney) signatures..


To add more data and some minor nitpicks.

Monica Rambeau was the 2nd Captain Marvel*.  #1 (Mar-vell) and #3 (Genis-Vell, son of Mar-vell) were both white skinned Kree (aliens).  Genis-Vell later takes on the cosmic awarness look (black with stars floating).   Mar-vell was gender-swapped and played by Annette Benning in Captain Marvel.  Monica Rambeau gave up the name to Mar-vell's son so he could carry on the legacy whe she found out he was using it..  There was some overlap when both were operating as Captain Marvel.

Monica Rambeau was in the young daughter in the movie, her mother, Maria Rambeau, was Carol's friend..  Her fighter pilot call-sign is Photon, which is a name Monica Rambeau uses after Captain Marvel.  So when we flash forward to modern day, we'll (hopefully) find Monica as 30-ish black woman who gains powers and become Photon.

Monica Rambeau hasn't been Captain Marvel for over twenty years (since 1996).

That last bit is the important part. She wasn't the original Captain Marvel, had no connection to the original Captain Marvel (unlike Carol Danvers). She hasn't been Captain Marvel for decades, though is still active using other names. OTH, Carol Danvers has been "Ms. Marvel" since 77?, is a much older/established character than Monica Rambeau, is the current Captain Marvel, and came by her name in tribute to the first Captain Marvel*.

So Carol earned her movie, and earned her name.  Photon/Spectrum can come later. You could argue they should have made a Photon movie ... but that's a different argument. Similarly, they could have made a Kamala Khan Ms. Marvel movie too.  I'll be REALLY supprised if Kamala doesn't get a movie --- it just makes a lot of sense for her movie to come after Captain Marvel.

" Counts of Captain Marvel ignoring Faucet's Captain Marvel and only counting Marvel Comics versions.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 May 2019 22:36 - 31 May 2019 22:39 #64183 by j2001
Hey guys, just adding my two cents.

First, I don’t give a crap about the DCEU/MCU. I only watch movies with superheroines as leads because that’s what I like. Other than WW and Captain Marvel I only watched the very first Avengers movie and found it utterly boring, enough to understand that movies with male superheroes as mains simply don’t interest me.

So, when I watch a DC/Marvel movie I already know the writing is gonna be bad. Too light an entertainment for me. So what I do seek is just a powerful girl kicking ass.

While WW was riddled with a love story I could have done without, and while Gal Gadot doesn’t have anything at all that would make her an ideal choice for the character, I liked it because it was the story of a undoubtedly FEMALE superhero. A superhero that celebrated her own femininity and the power that came with it. A strong woman in a man-dominated world, scoffed at before earning respect. You couldn’t simply replace WW with Superman and have the same story, it was a unique tale tailored to a superheroine.

Like someone here has already said, this isn’t true for Captain Marvel. It’s a spectacularly genderless story. Cpt Marvel being a woman is an element of utter irrelevance. You could have swapped her with a man and not change one thing save for pronouns. She doesn’t even have a love interest. And there is absolutely zero fanservice (not in one frame she shows any skin).

I’m not saying this is bad, I’m clearly not their target audience. Perhaps this is the ultimate maturity of female superheroes, being entirely indistinguishable from male ones. No sexism and no objectification. But even if I’m to be an asshole, even if I’m an objectifying piece of shit, let me have this space to say goddammit I wish superheroines still had anything inherently female to flaunt. 
Last edit: 31 May 2019 22:39 by j2001.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Jun 2019 01:03 #64185 by shadar

j2001 wrote: Hey guys, just adding my two cents.

First, I don’t give a crap about the DCEU/MCU. I only watch movies with superheroines as leads because that’s what I like. Other than WW and Captain Marvel I only watched the very first Avengers movie and found it utterly boring, enough to understand that movies with male superheroes as mains simply don’t interest me.

So, when I watch a DC/Marvel movie I already know the writing is gonna be bad. Too light an entertainment for me. So what I do seek is just a powerful girl kicking ass.

While WW was riddled with a love story I could have done without, and while Gal Gadot doesn’t have anything at all that would make her an ideal choice for the character, I liked it because it was the story of a undoubtedly FEMALE superhero. A superhero that celebrated her own femininity and the power that came with it. A strong woman in a man-dominated world, scoffed at before earning respect. You couldn’t simply replace WW with Superman and have the same story, it was a unique tale tailored to a superheroine.

Like someone here has already said, this isn’t true for Captain Marvel. It’s a spectacularly genderless story. Cpt Marvel being a woman is an element of utter irrelevance. You could have swapped her with a man and not change one thing save for pronouns. She doesn’t even have a love interest. And there is absolutely zero fanservice (not in one frame she shows any skin).

I’m not saying this is bad, I’m clearly not their target audience. Perhaps this is the ultimate maturity of female superheroes, being entirely indistinguishable from male ones. No sexism and no objectification. But even if I’m to be an asshole, even if I’m an objectifying piece of shit, let me have this space to say goddammit I wish superheroines still had anything inherently female to flaunt. 


Some good thoughts. I also like superheroine characters to be distinctly female in the way they look, think, act, dress and the way they solve problems. And when you're essentially invulnerable, clothing serves no purpose other than to make you look really cool.  There is no downside to dressing exotically sexy when you have a perfect body and no risk of harm or sexual exploitation. 

In other words, a woman who celebrates her freedom by dressing and doing exactly as she wishes. 

How would that work in the real world?  Certainly not like in the movies, which have to work through a huge pile of cultural issues and norms and expectations. Go back 50 years and costumes couldn't be too revealing. Now they can't be revealing because that's exploitive and sexist. 

The heck with all that. 

In my world, costumes are used to dazzle and confuse the bad guys during tense crime situations and to provide freedom of movement and to say "screw you" to the stuffy people of the world, And having a costume get blown or shot away is part of the thrill. 

So no, male and female characters should not be even remotely interchangeable in a story. They have different strengths and weaknesses and different strategies, etc. etc. Something that's pretty obvious in my stories. 

Shadar
The following user(s) said Thank You: j2001

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Jun 2019 16:12 #64192 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Captain Marvel - Spoilers - Enter at your own risk

shadar wrote:

j2001 wrote: Hey guys, just adding my two cents.

First, I don’t give a crap about the DCEU/MCU. I only watch movies with superheroines as leads because that’s what I like. Other than WW and Captain Marvel I only watched the very first Avengers movie and found it utterly boring, enough to understand that movies with male superheroes as mains simply don’t interest me.

So, when I watch a DC/Marvel movie I already know the writing is gonna be bad. Too light an entertainment for me. So what I do seek is just a powerful girl kicking ass.

While WW was riddled with a love story I could have done without, and while Gal Gadot doesn’t have anything at all that would make her an ideal choice for the character, I liked it because it was the story of a undoubtedly FEMALE superhero. A superhero that celebrated her own femininity and the power that came with it. A strong woman in a man-dominated world, scoffed at before earning respect. You couldn’t simply replace WW with Superman and have the same story, it was a unique tale tailored to a superheroine.

Like someone here has already said, this isn’t true for Captain Marvel. It’s a spectacularly genderless story. Cpt Marvel being a woman is an element of utter irrelevance. You could have swapped her with a man and not change one thing save for pronouns. She doesn’t even have a love interest. And there is absolutely zero fanservice (not in one frame she shows any skin).

I’m not saying this is bad, I’m clearly not their target audience. Perhaps this is the ultimate maturity of female superheroes, being entirely indistinguishable from male ones. No sexism and no objectification. But even if I’m to be an asshole, even if I’m an objectifying piece of shit, let me have this space to say goddammit I wish superheroines still had anything inherently female to flaunt. 


Some good thoughts. I also like superheroine characters to be distinctly female in the way they look, think, act, dress and the way they solve problems. And when you're essentially invulnerable, clothing serves no purpose other than to make you look really cool.  There is no downside to dressing exotically sexy when you have a perfect body and no risk of harm or sexual exploitation. 

In other words, a woman who celebrates her freedom by dressing and doing exactly as she wishes. 

How would that work in the real world?  Certainly not like in the movies, which have to work through a huge pile of cultural issues and norms and expectations. Go back 50 years and costumes couldn't be too revealing. Now they can't be revealing because that's exploitive and sexist. 

The heck with all that. 

In my world, costumes are used to dazzle and confuse the bad guys during tense crime situations and to provide freedom of movement and to say "screw you" to the stuffy people of the world, And having a costume get blown or shot away is part of the thrill. 

So no, male and female characters should not be even remotely interchangeable in a story. They have different strengths and weaknesses and different strategies, etc. etc. Something that's pretty obvious in my stories. 

Shadar


I love these replies.

I bought Ms. Marvel #1 of the rack back in the day.  I am firmly behind Hot Pants Supergirl wearing ballerina slippers.

OTH, I'll take the Captain Marvel movie over Catwoman w/ Halle Berry any day.  Despite how hot Halle Berry is and her revealing outfit.  (ALso holy crap is she still hot as hell in John Wick 3.) 

Characters should be written as fully realized people.  There are many paths to that.  An interchanable character CAN work.  Just look at Ripley from Alien.  The part was originally written for a man.  (Ditto for Jolie's Salt.)  But, the point is also valid, esp framed as a preference.  The are many paths.

I just let Captain Marvel be what it was, and decided that I enjoyed it.  I also think that MCU Carol Danvers IS a woman who celebrates her freedom by dressing and doing exactly as she wishes.
The following user(s) said Thank You: lfan, talk2sparky

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Jun 2019 01:15 - 22 Jun 2019 01:16 #64354 by brantley
Not a spoiler, but a recent Facebook post by sf writer CJ Cherryh:

Watched Captain Marvel last night. A plot. An actual plot. Intelligence in between explosions. So much better than Aquaman, which was our prior. The one thing I wish Hollywood would learn is the word 'galaxy' in its proper application. But hey,...it has a plot
Last edit: 22 Jun 2019 01:16 by brantley.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • brantley
  • brantley's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Uberposter of Distinction
  • Uberposter of Distinction
More
22 Jun 2019 19:29 - 22 Jun 2019 19:35 #64356 by slim36
Brie Larson gives credit to her stunt doubles (click on the 17 Jun 2019)

This message has an attachment image.
Please log in or register to see it.

Last edit: 22 Jun 2019 19:35 by slim36. Reason: hyperlink troubleshooting
The following user(s) said Thank You: aguilauno

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 Jun 2019 16:30 #64363 by shadar

brantley wrote: Not a spoiler, but a recent Facebook post by sf writer CJ Cherryh:

Watched Captain Marvel last night. A plot. An actual plot. Intelligence in between explosions. So much better than Aquaman, which was our prior. The one thing I wish Hollywood would learn is the word 'galaxy' in its proper application. But hey,...it has a plot


Interesting and encouraging that Cherryh could find some kind words for the movie. I'm not that fond of her writing style, but I'm in awe of her contribution to the world of Science Fiction.

Shadar

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 Jun 2019 16:54 #64364 by TwiceOnThursdays
Replied by TwiceOnThursdays on topic Captain Marvel - Spoilers - Enter at your own risk

shadar wrote:

brantley wrote: Not a spoiler, but a recent Facebook post by sf writer CJ Cherryh:

Watched Captain Marvel last night. A plot. An actual plot. Intelligence in between explosions. So much better than Aquaman, which was our prior. The one thing I wish Hollywood would learn is the word 'galaxy' in its proper application. But hey,...it has a plot


Interesting and encouraging that Cherryh could find some kind words for the movie. I'm not that fond of her writing style, but I'm in awe of her contribution to the world of Science Fiction.

Shadar


I never got into Cherryh, I always meant to.  I have read Cyteen and. Regenesis and loved them.  There are many themes there that resonate close to what we like here.  No super-strong femmes, but a lot of genetic engineering and strong female characters.  Unlike our preference it’s all mostly psychological, but I thought it one of the best books dealing with the subject.  It’s hard to write a book filled with insanely smart and talented people who have been honed in a competitive environment, and she pulls it off.

I read some of her other works and it didn’t resonate as much with me.  I keep meaning to follow along w/ that universe and more of her hard sci if but I read Downbelow station and it was just ok, and I’ve been distracted since.

And awe is right, she’s got an extensive body of work.  I really should find another book and give her another go since as I said I REALLY like Cyteen/Regenesis, and I’d recommend them not as a SWM-book, but just as a really great Sci-Fi book (that might also have some inspiration for things we like here).

Great that she liked Captain Marvel.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Yesterday 17:06 - Yesterday 17:28 #64365 by brantley
Last edit: Yesterday 17:28 by brantley.
The following user(s) said Thank You: aguilauno

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • brantley
  • brantley's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Uberposter of Distinction
  • Uberposter of Distinction
More
Yesterday 19:34 #64366 by brantley
She also wrote a Superman novel, Lois & Clark, apparently unrelated to the TV series of the same name:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Cherryh+Lois+%26+Clark&ref=nb_sb_noss

--Brantley

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • brantley
  • brantley's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Uberposter of Distinction
  • Uberposter of Distinction
More
Time to create page: 0.113 seconds