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Jessica vs Kara: utter bullshit for me

25 Nov 2015 18:46 #45389 by Woodclaw
Jessica vs Kara: utter bullshit for me was created by Woodclaw
As of the release of Jessica Jones on Netflix many "feminist" sites have started publishing commentaries on how Supergirl isn't a good show because the main character is less ... assertive I guess.
I agree that the writing of Supergirl could be better, but comparing these two shows is like comparing apples and lemons. An article of Forbes states that this is because in the mind of some people "Female Superheroes" are a separate genre from the general superheroic fiction and I ahve to agree on that count.

Supergirl is a rather lighthearted show, with a rather candid lead character for better or worse. I read a couple of articles that cried havok after episode 4 because Kara assumed that Cat was a bad mother, but she actually turned out to be a good one. In my opinion that is an example of how Kara being candid worked both in favor and against the character: Kara assumed something about Cat based on the character she projected on the workplace, this unfortunately made her look bad to some audience, but I liked it.
Jessica Jones is heavy on the drama. If Kara is flawed, Jessica is damaged. True she manages and, in the end, she overcomes, but the entire premise of the show is that she was raped. How's that for empowering feminism?
The basic point is that Jessica Jones is about overcoming past demons, Supergirl is about going forward with optimism, they're two stories that are complementary, not in opposition.

BTW, how comes that nobody compared these two shows to Agent Carter?

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25 Nov 2015 19:01 #45390 by Markiehoe
Replied by Markiehoe on topic Jessica vs Kara: utter bullshit for me
I also find it amazing that no comparison between Flash and Daredevil was made.
Both shows have the same positives and negatives as Supergirl and Jessica jones.
This is why so called "feminists" and other extremists groups fail.
Instead of celebrating two shows with female leads they tear one down to build the other up.
There is plenty of room for two, three and even more shows with female leads.
Just because Supergirl doesn't tick the right boxes for some people doesn't mean it is not a good show for women/ girls or anybody for that matter.

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25 Nov 2015 19:20 #45391 by castor
Replied by castor on topic Jessica vs Kara: utter bullshit for me
The truth is somewhere in the middle.

I haven't seen all of Jones yet-haven't had the time...but i think i am getting what it has(and that maybe my problem with it which i will probabbly get to-i don't see why its 13 hours long).

It is very much a moder take on traditionally femenist. Jones has been beaten back to by men, specifically her lack of a better word Ex and its her job to overcome it and find some measure of happiness and just closure in a mans world. Men are evil, and stupid ..

And yeah in a modern take Killian would probabbly respond well on X Box Live. Its modernity comes from the fact that Jones is presented as flawed and a little unsure(older femenist heros where made of sterner stuff) but still something.

Supergirl seems to be more third wave femenism-which is a term that traditional Femenists created to insult modern women. Her Goal is to find a place in the world that hasn't specifically denied her much. Yes Her femeneity is an issue you get the sence belitltles her-but yeah she can be pretty and cute and be a girl-as was said in the first epiosde..and still be a hero and powerful.

Which is more valuable or more realistic-well neither, there both fiction. Jones for all of it Grit, does feel like its in the worst possible world Jones herself is a good performance but both to vulnerable and tough at the same time. Supergirl is well-high fantasy, but i get the sence that her struggle feel a little to easy. Not just her powers She does have a fantasy job, a fantasy apartment, and two men fawning over her . Fiction.

But its heroic fiction-and if we can imagine are best world as the one we want then supergirl is easily the one you want-she is hopeful. For all the talk about moving last weeks episode around-i never got a sence of terror. In the end the good people will win.

Which isn't realistic but it something.

Jones is all fear. it is a rape victim trigger word-the show. For all the talk in educated spaces about rape on campus etc-it is spreading fear, spreading terror-and thats not necessairly a good thing. Though Jones certainly doesn't say all men are evil, that is one of its messages at its heart that a purple man can do horrible things to you-and i am not sure about that. Jones looks into the darkness.

Light Vs Dark-it equals out grey but of the two i would take something.
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25 Nov 2015 20:13 #45393 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Jessica vs Kara: utter bullshit for me
I think the idea that one can have discussions about real life based on either of these shows is ridiculous. They don't in any way reflect real life. They are outrageous fantasies.

The only "serious" discussions that make sense is to compare their execution against the source material they arise from -- which are themselves outrageous comic book fantasies.

Reality does not take the stage here. Not even once. Not even close. Those websites and discussions that try to connect the shows to anything suggesting real life might as well be spending their time listening to pure noise through their headphones and trying to discern the meaning of life from it.

I tend to enjoy Jessica for the same reason I liked the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen Donaldson -- I enjoy stories of people being put into horrific, impossible, degrading, disgusting situations and then using their brains and their determination to overcome the worst of it. That much mimics the larger human experience, albeit in a highly abstracted fantasy.

Supergirl as written for this show is pure bubble-gum. Something you greatly enjoy chewing for a bit and then spit out and forget. A visual orgasm that started off as fun, given its anticipation, but is already fading as I realize just how poor the writing is. Instead of improving, it's getting worse with every episode. Which is what I'd feared when it was picked up by a major network.

Imagine what could have been done if it had been produced by HBO, Netflix, Starz, etc and aimed at a grown-up audience?

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01 Dec 2015 16:49 #45441 by KarkClent
Replied by KarkClent on topic Jessica vs Kara: utter bullshit for me
Aw man, the site reboot ate your story Woodclaw. A shame too, it was a really good short story.

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01 Dec 2015 17:15 #45444 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Jessica vs Kara: utter bullshit for me

KarkClent wrote: Aw man, the site reboot ate your story Woodclaw. A shame too, it was a really good short story.


Unfortunately, I forgot to save an offline copy of it. I'm hoping that Fats can help on that front (fingers and toes crossed).

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01 Dec 2015 19:33 #45445 by fats
Replied by fats on topic Jessica vs Kara: utter bullshit for me
I'm sorry to say that i can't recover the post.

Fats

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02 Dec 2015 04:48 #45460 by KarkClent
Replied by KarkClent on topic Jessica vs Kara: utter bullshit for me
Woodclaw, you know what this means, right?

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02 Dec 2015 11:42 #45462 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Jessica vs Kara: utter bullshit for me

fats wrote: I'm sorry to say that i can't recover the post.

Fats


I feared so. I'll try to rewrite it from scratches.

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02 Dec 2015 12:17 #45463 by fats
Replied by fats on topic Jessica vs Kara: utter bullshit for me

KarkClent wrote: Woodclaw, you know what this means, right?


ground loop hums are a bitch, rewiring the input on the amp to accept a balanced input works wonders, failing that a DI box can sometimes reduces the buzz. most studios now use rack mounted effects units like the line 6 helix, most tracks recorded in the last 3-5 years are now using that type of system.

fats
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06 Dec 2015 01:23 - 06 Dec 2015 01:28 #45532 by enchantederotica
Replied by enchantederotica on topic Jessica vs Kara: utter bullshit for me
As a woman, I just want to say that JJ >>>>>> SG.

Jessica Jones was exactly what TV/movie comics are missing: A strong female lead that ISNT a feminist. She's a character in a situation dealing with problems and conflicts ... who happens to be a woman. She wasn't waving a feminism flag or quipping about "girls kick ass too". That whole cliche was avoided, and she just did her thing. The focus is not on the fact that she is a woman at all. I roll my eyes at any time "Women can do anything a man can do." is the focus of a female-lead anything. JJ, Hellcat, and Trinity were just characters in situations, and that was that.

With that, I am also strongly against a Black Widow movie for similar reasons: Black Widow origin story would ruin her character because, as stated in Captain America 2, her past is full of horrible deeds that probably should not be brought up in the MCU and simply ignored. Don't give her a movie "because MCU needs a female-led movie" (it does, but don't do it for that reason). Do it for an interesting character, like JJ, like Captain Marvel, and ... well 5 years ago I would have said "like Scarlet Witch" ... but that ship has sailed.

And while I'm on my soap box, I will be EXTREMELY disappointed if Medusa in Inhumans is NOT a sexed up vixen. Just like Black Cat deserves epic cleavage if she shows up, Medusa deserves to be a bombshell. You don't see anyone telling Thor to put his shirt on, or Captain America either. Sex sells both ways. I know.

EDIT: I saw someone mentioned Agent Carter. While Carter is the most enjoyable character of the lot, the show is a bit aggressive on the feminism and very in-your-face about it. But take into consideration the setting: it fit the times of the 1950s where feminism was laughed at as 'men' did all the work. So Carter kind of needs to take the in-your-face approach. It's a bit annoying at times, but understandable.

Supernautral women with superpowered sex-drives: www.enchantederotica.com
Last edit: 06 Dec 2015 01:28 by enchantederotica.

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06 Dec 2015 21:56 - 06 Dec 2015 21:58 #45541 by Woodclaw
Replied by Woodclaw on topic Jessica vs Kara: utter bullshit for me
Okay, the story isn't exactly the same, but this is what I remembered.

The jukebox played the final notes of Sinatra's “Stranger in the Night” and the bar went silent again. The music felt very well in tune with the place, it had a late '40s feel to it, full of smooth natural wood, with some touches of chrome here and there, wall lamps – shielded by thick, green glass – provided a soft illumination.

The bartender – a slim man, with eyes circled by laugh and worry lines in equal measure – poured two pints of amber colored beer and passed then to the only two patrons at the counter, two young women. The first was a brunette with a nose that looked strangely thin compared to the oval of her face, she was taller and older than her friend – but one would be hard pressed to say by how much – she dressed in a leather jacket and jeans. The second was a blonde, with a cute face and a mouth that seemed to curl up in a smile more often than not, she had a habit of reaching at the bridge of her nose, as if she had the habit of wearing glasses, she was dressed in a positively unique red and blue attire.

They clinked they glasses without a word and took a first sip.

“So ...” the brunette started after a moment and second sip.

“So?” the blonde inquired.

The brunette rolled the glass between her hand, she looked deeply in thought. “How do you do it?” The blonde's mouth twitched with puzzlement. “Do what?” “This.” the brunette replied pointing at the symbol on the blonde's shirt, “How do you keep going day after day, knowing that there are … people out there that would go to any length to hurt you? How do you stay that positive?”

The blonde tapped her chin a little trying to measure her words. “I don't know, never thought much about it. I think it's because I like to believe that every day you can go out and make something amazing out of it. I tried to lay low for so long and it felt good sometimes, but also felt very bad. I want to believe that every day you can go out and fix something.”

The brunette looked down to her beer and murmured. “Some things can't be fixed … not that easily.” The blonde looked away and her brow darkened. “I've met my aunt recently.” “Sorry what …?”

“Not my human aunt.”

“You mean from ... but how?”

“She told me she was aboard Fort Rozz. She told me my mom sentenced her to life. I still remember her telling me stories while I sat in her lap, now she's hell bent on taking over this world.” the glass in front of the blonde started to hiss and turn red, she closed her eyes and turned quickly “How do you do it?”

“Do what?”

“How do you keep going knowing when you know that your past is right behind you ready to pounce you at a moment notice? How do you go on with that kind of fear in you?”

The brunette answer came out uneasily: “I'm not the right person to ask it, but I know one thing: you can't run forever, one day you have to turn back and face it. You have to look you demon straight in the face and punch it right between his eyes.”

“You … you got him, don't you? How do you feel?”

“It's strange.” the brunette said tentatively, “It's not what I thought it would be. The fear is still there, it's still part of me and it would be for the rest of my life, but now I know I can beat it. I know that it doesn't have to control me … to define who I am.”

They sat silent for a moment, then they gurgled down the rest of their beers, left a generous tip under the coasters and walked out of the bar.

It was a cold and crispy night, the sky was clear and a half moon eyed from between the buildings. The brunette took a deep breath, “What are you going to do? Are you going to hunt her down?”

The blonde smoothed her cape and answered: “No, I won't, at least for now. There are people that count on me and I won't let them down. I know that this confrontation is going to come, but I can't allow it to shape my life. When she comes, I'm going to face her. What about you? Are you ready for tomorrow?”

“I guess only time will tell.” the brunette sighed, “See you, Kara.” “Bye Jessica.” she answered as she slowly lifted from the sidewalk and flew away in the distance.

Jessica started to walk along the empty street and surprised herself looking up in the sky. 'Go out and fix something' she thought to herself.

She used to love flying, but she hadn't ever since … how long it was? Her expression steeled as she started to accelerate and, after a moment she was rushing along, she leapt but returned to the ground. She pushed herself more and felt a familiar feeling stirring her guts. She leapt a third time and she shot in the cold, dark sky, higher and higher above the building, where nobody could see her smile.

Last edit: 06 Dec 2015 21:58 by Woodclaw.
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