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Questions about the Aurora Universe

16 Dec 2022 19:57 - 16 Dec 2022 19:57 #76125 by The Highlander
Questions about the Aurora Universe was created by The Highlander
Recently I’ve been re-reading the excellent Kiraling however it has left me with a few questions about the Aurora Universe. So I thought I’d ask them here. 

1.       If there are the blond Velorians and the dark haired Arions does that mean there is a race of redheaded superwomen out there somewhere? 

2.       Would it be possible with enough gold to reduce a high level Supremis down to a human scale level of strength, say able to lift a couple of tonnes rather than thousands? Similarly would it be possible to reduce their invulnerability to the point where human weapons might be able to hurt them? I’m think of a ‘Samson and Delilah’ scenario where a Supremis is tricked into putting on gold before being tied up with heavy chains and shot with a 120mm tank gun. Totally unrealistic of course but theoretically possible? 

3.       It’s been established that humans and Supremis can’t have children (at least normally) but is there anything biological stopping Velorians and Arions from breading? And if not what would the children be like? 

4.       Roughly what is the difference is strength between the various classes of Supremis? For example is a Prime 10 times stronger than a Beta, 100 times stronger or 1000? And the same for the various types of Velorians.
Last edit: 16 Dec 2022 19:57 by The Highlander.

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16 Dec 2022 22:29 #76126 by anonxyzus
Replied by anonxyzus on topic Questions about the Aurora Universe
Shadar is the authoritative source on all things Aurora Universe. I'm more or less a guest in it. But I will answer your questions from my perspective.

1. I don't have redheads. It doesn't mean there can't be, and if Shadar chimes in he can tell you about a dark skinned people the Galen developed after Velorians and Arions.

2. Gold acts by disrupting Orgonne energy flow within the Velorian's body. Gold is either there or it isn't. Once the amount of gold is great enough to disrupt Orgonne flow, adding more gold does nothing. Velor is a larger, denser planet that earth, with a gold core that creates a gold field that interferes with Orgonne. However, given that Velor has greater gravity than earth, Velorians, even under the influence of gold, are much stronger than humans. Invulnerability ... is not absolute, but I do believe they are largely invulnerable even in a gold field. Shadar???

3. I've never explored Velorian-Arion cross breeding. I vaguely recall that Julie of the Julie of Velor series had an Arion mother, but I'm not certain about that.

4. I got this from Shardar. Let NHI equal the strength of the strongest possible natural human being. Then a Protector is > 4,000 NHI, P1 > 1,000 NHI, Matra 600 - 800 NHI, Brava 100 - 200 NHI.

In Kiraling Xara is much stronger than a Protector, I haven't established how much stronger yet. And in Kiraling a Protector is stronger than a Prime, a P1 is roughly equal to or greater strength than a Prime (haven't put a lot of thought into this), and a Prime scares the $&^$ out of Matras and Bravas. Betas ... I haven't established their strength relative to the others, maybe Shadar can chime in on this. But Betas are not a threat to Matras and Bravas. For one, Betas are not invulnerable, whereas Matras and Bravas are both invulnerable and stronger.  But as I said, invulnerability is not an absolute. So give a Beta a heavy GAR and Matras and Bravas might think twice about a frontal assault.

Shadar can answer these questions from his perspective better than I can. As I said in my reply above, I haven't put much thought into some of the questions you bring up. One of the advantages of writing in the first person is that if Joe doesn't ask a question, his author doesn't have to answer it :)

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16 Dec 2022 22:57 #76127 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Questions about the Aurora Universe

Recently I’ve been re-reading the excellent Kiraling however it has left me with a few questions about the Aurora Universe. So I thought I’d ask them here. 

1.       If there are the blond Velorians and the dark haired Arions does that mean there is a race of redheaded superwomen out there somewhere? 

2.       Would it be possible with enough gold to reduce a high level Supremis down to a human scale level of strength, say able to lift a couple of tonnes rather than thousands? Similarly would it be possible to reduce their invulnerability to the point where human weapons might be able to hurt them? I’m think of a ‘Samson and Delilah’ scenario where a Supremis is tricked into putting on gold before being tied up with heavy chains and shot with a 120mm tank gun. Totally unrealistic of course but theoretically possible? 

3.       It’s been established that humans and Supremis can’t have children (at least normally) but is there anything biological stopping Velorians and Arions from breading? And if not what would the children be like? 

4.       Roughly what is the difference is strength between the various classes of Supremis? For example is a Prime 10 times stronger than a Beta, 100 times stronger or 1000? And the same for the various types of Velorians.

On item 1: There have been red-headed Geheimites, who are an interbreeding between Arion Primes and Velorians with some additional Galen DNA, thanks to a rogue Galen. They tend to be more powerful than either, and have in the last century become the place where the Galens drew their Procreators from. The only real story of significance (back in the 1990's AU) was a squad of Geheimites who hunted down rogue Protectors and Primes who'd "gone off the reservation". Otherwise, the Gehemites (sometimes called Krypt-Terrans) are very isolated and are almost never seen. 

On item 2: It's not just the quantity of gold, but its placement. When the gold is at a distance, it takes tons of it, maybe megatons. But when it's pure and placed tightly bound around the lower neck to encircle the thyroid gland, it takes only a few ounces to suppress Orgone metabolism which leaves them with only enhanced human muscles. (Their muscles are a mix of human and Galen muscle fibers, with the Galen ones needing Orgone to contract at all, and then with fantastic force.) Note that Velorians on Velor, which has a gold core, live in a heavy gravity (5G) world, and are still more athletic than any Olympian. So maybe ten or twenty times our strength in that setting. 

The question is going further though. There have been stories that showed that a thick choker with gold from Velor (which contains radioactive inclusions) has more of an effect, taking them down nearly to human levels and reducing their invulnerability significantly. But that concept could use more exploration in some stories.

Item 3: Velorians and Arions can easily interbreed given they are the same subspecies of Homo sapiens Supremis. They all used to be Velorians. The Arions are a subset of Velorians who did not believe in using the Maternity Engine on Velor to perfect the genetics of children. They were so violently opposed to that, and advocated only natural selection via old fashioned sex for reproduction, that they escaped (or were ejected) from Velor and traveled via a transporter kind of device (subsequently destroyed) that took them to Aria, a world much like Velor. They were so adamant about rejecting Velorian culture that they engineered a 'gene bomb' to release into the atmosphere of Aria that infected everyone on Aria with a retrovirus which tweaked their DNA, doing away with the recessive genes for the universal blonde hair color of Velorians and amplified the dominant genes to produce hair that is raven black with highlights of purple. No one would ever accuse them of being Velorian!!  Unfortunately, it also had two serious side effects in that it caused most future children born to be far less powerful (the Betans -- about 50x Terran strength) but also boosted the strength of a very small minority, the Primes, who became significantly stronger than Velorians. It also stunted the development of their Volatai organs, which allow Velorians to fly.  

The Galen Aphrodite long ago tried to fix the Primal power problem by creating Velorian Protectors.  

And the Arions have been working to overcome the volatai problem, and have had some success with females only from the Aerie Clan. Note that males have always had a single volatai and females have two, one in the base of each breast, where it has close access to their storied Orgone supply. So whether Velorian or an Aerie Clan Arion, the females are by far the better fliers, and also carry much, much more Orgone than any man. 

The Arions eventually formed an Empire and became very militaristic with a completely different culture than Velor. After the 'gene bomb' screwup, they are obsessed with proving their own physical and cultural superiority, and trying to gather all Terran worlds under their umbrella. Velor and its Protectors formed the Enlightenment to gather peace loving worlds interested in trade under their umbrella. The war between them has been fought for centuries now. Talk about the ultimate culture war. 

The problem with the offspring of Velorians and Arions is that neither culture will accept them. Such offspring wind up as rogues out on the rim of known space, or else privateers/pirates, etc. Not very socialized and very dangerous given their powers are intermediate between the two groups of Supremis. I never really invented a name for these 'half breeds', nor worked out their powers. But they could be very interesting characters. 

Item 4:
Arions come in Betas (Betans) and Primes. Betans tend to average 50 NHI, and Primes average 2000 NHI.  (Note: NHI, Hormal Human Index, establishes its reference (1 NHI) as the strength of the strongest natural Terran every measured. Think some hulking male bodybuilder or whatever. So even 50 NHI is pretty impressive given the reference point. 

Velorians have three genetic classes (selected and managed by the Maternity Engine that the Arions hate so much):
Bravas who are in the 100 to 150 NHI range.
Matras who are in the 300 to 500 NHI range.
Primas who are a little over 1000 NHI (but not as strong as a Prime). 

Then we have the doubly-enhanced Protectors (all Primas by birth) who are in the 4000 to 6000 NHI range. 

BTW... with the Maternity Engine, which all Velorians are born from, the parents contribute a newly fertilized ova which the Engine then genetically tweaks to "meet the needs of society". Parents don't get a choice of their child's characteristics, which could be mixed with genes from other couples they don't even know. Their children could be from a different genetic class than their parents, and the roles in society are strongly determined by genetic class. (Not hard to see why the Arions rebelled and rejected that kind of controlled reproduction and went back to doing it the old fashioned way.)

Shadar
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16 Dec 2022 23:28 #76129 by anonxyzus
Replied by anonxyzus on topic Questions about the Aurora Universe
Something to keep in mind, you'll note that Shadar's answers are a little different from mine. You'll see variations depending on the author, how well he or she understands Shadar's original AU, and creative differences. I have stolen borrowed much from Shadar, but there are differences.

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17 Dec 2022 00:42 #76131 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Questions about the Aurora Universe

Something to keep in mind, you'll note that Shadar's answers are a little different from mine. You'll see variations depending on the author, how well he or she understands Shadar's original AU, and creative differences. I have stolen borrowed much from Shadar, but there are differences.

Yup, and that's totally cool. The AU is an open universe. Also, my view of things change a bit over time as well  

All numbers are averages anyway, with the wide range of strength, for instance, as there is with we Terrans.

And when it comes to fights, skills count for a lot. Primes start their combat training when they are still toddlers, and a ten year old Prime is going to be tossing around boulders the size of a small truck as they fight with other Primes. And it gets way more intense after that. Think Amazon-grade training. 

That's why Primes sometimes kill even Protectors, although smart money would bet on the Protector. Vels usually try to take out Arion ships in space when they can, given that Arions can't fly, even if even they can live for a long time in hard vacuum. Much easier than taking them on down on a planet where there are locals to worry about. 

The Aerie Class females have recently kicked off discussion back on Velor (in a story I haven't published yet) about needing some kind of Super-Protector. Aphrodite has yet to weigh in on that given that would come from her, and she's the one who can craft and pass on the mutagenic retrovirus of transformation, given she's the only Galen who currently has a personal interest in Velorians. But the Velorian Council is working on her, but given she's tantamount to a capricious goddess, able to further tweak Velorian DNA, for better or worse, that's tricky stuff. 

But it provides a reference point for character creation and interaction. 

Shadar

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29 Dec 2022 16:06 #76234 by The Highlander
Replied by The Highlander on topic Questions about the Aurora Universe
Thanks for all the replies, it’s good to get answers directly from the source.

I’m pleased to hear about the Geheimites, presumably since they are stronger than there are than Velorians/Arions they are also buffer than them as well. Which of course just makes them hotter!

It’s interesting to get more details of the effect of gold on Supremis, and it does sound like in my scenario it would be possible for humans to kill a high level Velorian or Arion using current technology. Of course it would require the Supremis in question to be incredibly stupid and would probably not end well for the humans involved!

I did think that Velorians and Arions would be able to breed but just wanted to make sure, and of course I figured that the resulting offspring would become outcasts. Still it makes good drama for a story.

I do find it slightly interesting that in some ways the Arions should be the good guys, with their rejection of the Velorian’s artificial selection and rigid caste system. If only they could get over their militaristic and expansionist nature.

Thanks for the outline of the differences between the various types of Supremis, I can see now why Primes and Protectors are so feared. I am slightly surprised some of the numbers are so low, even being generous and saying NHI equals being able to lift 500kg (which is probably an overestimation) that means most classes of Supremis are only able to lift a couple of hundred tonnes. Several years ago someone on DA posted a spreadsheet giving the energy produced by various sources (weapons, explosives etc) and what would be produced by superhuman kicks and punches. The most interesting bit is that a 120mm sabot round (i.e. what a modern tank fires) has about 3 times the impact of a kick from someone who can lift 100 tonnes.

Obviously this all depends on the circumstances but it should mean that anyone up to a Matra would be vulnerable to human weaponry. Of course actually hitting a human sized target moving at super speed with something like a tank gun is another matter entirely!
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29 Dec 2022 18:11 #76236 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Questions about the Aurora Universe

Thanks for all the replies, it’s good to get answers directly from the source.

I’m pleased to hear about the Geheimites, presumably since they are stronger than there are than Velorians/Arions they are also buffer than them as well. Which of course just makes them hotter!

It’s interesting to get more details of the effect of gold on Supremis, and it does sound like in my scenario it would be possible for humans to kill a high level Velorian or Arion using current technology. Of course it would require the Supremis in question to be incredibly stupid and would probably not end well for the humans involved!

I did think that Velorians and Arions would be able to breed but just wanted to make sure, and of course I figured that the resulting offspring would become outcasts. Still it makes good drama for a story.

I do find it slightly interesting that in some ways the Arions should be the good guys, with their rejection of the Velorian’s artificial selection and rigid caste system. If only they could get over their militaristic and expansionist nature.

Thanks for the outline of the differences between the various types of Supremis, I can see now why Primes and Protectors are so feared. I am slightly surprised some of the numbers are so low, even being generous and saying NHI equals being able to lift 500kg (which is probably an overestimation) that means most classes of Supremis are only able to lift a couple of hundred tonnes. Several years ago someone on DA posted a spreadsheet giving the energy produced by various sources (weapons, explosives etc) and what would be produced by superhuman kicks and punches. The most interesting bit is that a 120mm sabot round (i.e. what a modern tank fires) has about 3 times the impact of a kick from someone who can lift 100 tonnes.

Obviously this all depends on the circumstances but it should mean that anyone up to a Matra would be vulnerable to human weaponry. Of course actually hitting a human sized target moving at super speed with something like a tank gun is another matter entirely!

I've always tried to keep the power of the Supremis (Velorians/Arions/Geheimites) high enough to be interesting but low enough so that they weren't gods. Yes, a Supremis can be knocked on her ass (or through several reinforced concrete walls) by the most powerful Terran weapons, but not significantly injured.

If there is any near-absolute, it's their response to lethal force. Decades ago, I called it a "5th order invulnerability" in that the resistance to injury of every cell of their bodies would increase according to a 5th order polynomial  as a function of the forces applied against them. 

Which means they would feel like an optimized Terran to the slow or delicate touch, very seductive, and fully able to blend in and "interact" with Terrans when they wish to.

But turn that gentle touch into a serious punch, and you might break your hand. Turn it into a high-velocity rifle round, and you better watch out for the ricochets. Turn it into a tank round, and the fireworks would be blinding, splattering molten depleted uranium or tungsten around such that it would destroy everything around her while leaving her skin glowing white-hot. Maybe briefly dazed over even knocked out for a bit, but she'd survive.

And she could also survive inside the fireball of a nuke, mainly because it would blow her miles away before burning her up, although she'd likely be out of operation for a bit until she cooled down a bit.

So not completely unhurtable, but briefly stoppable, but extremely difficult to kill.

I had a related idea about strength. Great enough to bench a few hundred tons (and yes, being able to bench 500kg would be a decent operable definition of 1 NHI).

To a Prima (such as a Companion) that would allow them to bench 500,000 kg. A pretty impressive feat in the eyes of the ordinary man who just paid billions to enter into a century-long contract with a Companion. Having a Companion/girlfriend/wife with that kind of power would be quite the thing for a man who was trying to set himself up as the Lord of a planet or whatever. Warm his bed better than any Terran woman, protect him for any assassin and also defeat any enemy who tried to intrude on his turf. A nice combination of traits and likely worth a billion or so. 

Of course, Companions who were later retrained and enhanced to become Protectors (hundreds of years later) would have 4 to 6 times that strength, and perhaps a few times more than that (nobody really knows) for a Geheimite. 

But not such great power that they didn't have limits. The Supremis have stimulated the development of some extremely fearsome weapons by the Vendorians, whose entire civilization is focused on and funded by developing and selling super-weapons that can slow or even stop a Supremis. They are still working on kill.

By the way, I'll shortly post a picture of a Velorian stopping a tank shell, and also a Geheimite. The last is powerful enough to scare even a Velorian. Or more importantly, a Prime.

Shadar



 

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29 Dec 2022 18:39 - 29 Dec 2022 18:46 #76237 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Questions about the Aurora Universe
A Velorian testing herself against the depleted-uranium sabot penetrator from an M1A2 tank, with a high-speed camera catching the micro-seconds after impact. 

When you can safely approach her, you might find that she's a bit cross-eyed as she holds onto herself, her boobs growing noticeably larger beneath her hands as you watch, what with her absorbing the heat from her skin. 

Once you can, it would be polite to hand her a beer as she completes her her skin returns to normal color and that rather exotic swimsuit is now stretched a little. Thirsty doesn't even begin to cover it.

Just be aware that violence and arousal are two sides of the same coin when it comes to Velorians. Make sure you know what you are getting into.

 

Shadar

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29 Dec 2022 18:44 #76238 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Questions about the Aurora Universe
Not much is known about Geheimites, other than that they can be up to 7 feet tall and are culturally rather different than Velorians or Arions. They are much closer to Galens than humans, but were originally Velorians. The Galen currently draw their Procreators from the ranks of Geheimites instead of Velorians, as was traditionally done. 

Few men have told the tale of meeting one, although they are not believed to be inherently dangerous to Terrans. But neither are they protective like a Velorian.

They are instead in the business of hunting down rogue Velorians and teaching Primes the true meaning of power -- to the Prime's demise. 

 

Shadar

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30 Dec 2022 17:52 #76244 by Franky
Replied by Franky on topic Questions about the Aurora Universe
What strength level has a Geheimite compared to a Tset'lar? Would they be evenly matched - at least sort of?

By the way, would it be possible to establish some kind of Aurora Universe  Wiki on this side, covering all these topics?

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30 Dec 2022 21:45 #76246 by shadar
Replied by shadar on topic Questions about the Aurora Universe

What strength level has a Geheimite compared to a Tset'lar? Would they be evenly matched - at least sort of?

By the way, would it be possible to establish some kind of Aurora Universe  Wiki on this side, covering all these topics?


There is a Wiki that was made with many inputs from Brantley many years ago. I didn't directly contribute that I can recall, and I'd probably make a few tweaks, but its pretty close, albeit a bit thin in terms of depth in some areas. If you follow the numerous links in the Wiki, you'll learn most of what there is to know about the top-level world-building and background of the AU. 

As mentioned, it's not deep in terms of internal details in some areas -- that's still my bailiwick -- but by the time you've followed and read the linked material, you'll be fairly well grounded. 

I'll be publishing a new story soon, that I've been working on for some time, and that will bring you up to speed on the current thinking of the AU and provide more detail in a number of areas. 

Note that Brantley has retired from creating AU material and retired his nom de plume, but I'll never stop, given that the AU was my baby, first conceived by me back in the late 1980's BBS era (pre-Internet). Many people have since contributed to and expanded it for over 30 years, so I've long regarded it as a shared universe and have never tried to screw down the canon very tightly, encouraging innovation and expansion of the known universe by each author.

The one hard restraint I've put on it is that stories must always be provided for free and without advertising or any hint of commercial activity. That's just my peculiarity coming from the early days of the Internet, before commercialization, when some of us had grand visions of a world where people shared their creativity freely and without restraint or compensation. 

That kind of thinking didn't survive the 90's, when rampant commercialization became the norm, but I still hold to the early ideal given I only publish stories that have essentially zero cost of production (just my time and passion, which I have plenty of). I understand why that doesn't work with video producers.

Interestingly to me, the SWM, as I see it, remains one of the few survivors of the early 90's concept that fans freely sharing stories with fans, across the entire planet, is a worthy goal. 

Here's the Wiki:
aurora.fandom.com/wiki/Velorian

Shadar
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